If you are doomed 1, you die when you reach dying 3. If you are dying 3, do you die if you become doomed 1?
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It is hard to argue that gaining Doomed 1 wouldn't cause you to die if you already had Dying 3.
Dying always includes a value, and if it ever reaches dying 4, you die.
The dying value at which you die is reduced by your doomed value.
Dying does not give a point in time that it is checked at, such as 'at the start of your turn' or 'when Dying increases'. It is constantly checked - 'if it ever reaches...'.
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For this reason, I posted a question back in April about the effectiveness of doomed 1 against a dying 3 creature with regeneration. The first response I got was "I don't negotiate with devils."
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Yeah, I remember that. The addition of Regeneration makes the scenario a lot more complicated.
Basically you can't use the Doomed condition to bypass and invalidate Regeneration's ability to cause creatures to not die. That is the point of Regeneration.
Dying 4 would still kill a regenerating creature, right?
We have discussed this in the previous thread.
The point of Regeneration (above what Fast Healing gives) is:
A creature with regeneration has additional benefits. Its dying condition can't increase to a value that would kill it as long as its regeneration is active.
No, you don't get to nerf Regeneration to be the same as Fast Healing by some rules shenanigans and timing of when you apply Doomed. You have to actually turn off Regeneration in order to fully kill a creature with Regeneration. That is the intent of the rules even if it can be argued that it doesn't actually work as intended.
There are certainly people with different opinions on the matter. Plenty showed up on the previous thread.
But why are you bringing this up again? Are you actually expecting different answers once you fully give the scenario you actually want an answer to rather than just a simpler version of it?
There's no reason to reasonably think that changing the order of those conditions causes a special loophole to change how the regeneration works, no.
Sorry, I mistyped. Doomed 4 would kill a regenerating creature, right? By that point your soul has basically been ripped out.
Sorry, I mistyped. Doomed 4 would kill a regenerating creature, right? By that point your soul has basically been ripped out.
That one is a lot harder to answer. Because now it is not just an order of condition application, the two conditions are directly trying to contradict each other.
Regeneration saying that you can't die from your Dying value equaling your maximum Dying value allowed.
And Doomed saying that if your maximum Dying value is 0 you die.
With Doomed 4 being a much less common and harder to apply condition, I would probably let that one take priority. So if you do somehow manage to apply Doomed 4 to a creature with Regeneration, then it would die.
Also, having Regeneration put your Dying value to Dying -1 doesn't make any sense.
My current understanding is as follows. Doomed 1 lowering your max dying value to your current dying value counts as you reaching the max value, so you die. Since it's not possible for creatures with regeneration to reach their max dying value, doomed 1 can't kill those creatures in the same way. So if a dying 3 regenerating creature gained doomed 1, would they just get bumped down to dying 2?
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My current understanding is as follows. Doomed 1 lowering your max dying value to your current dying value counts as you reaching the max value, so you die. Since it's not possible for creatures with regeneration to reach their max dying value, doomed 1 can't kill those creatures in the same way. So if a dying 3 regenerating creature gained doomed 1, would they just get bumped down to dying 2?
That is how I would run it.