Intimidation plus damnation feats double check

[Bruhma]

I want to double check my understanding of the intimidation skill, especially the demoralize option, as combat is about to happen and i will be utilizing this BBEG

6th level sorceress
Cha: 20

relevant feats
skill focus: bluff
damnation 1 soulless gaze You gain a +2 bonus on Intimidate checks.
damnation 2 soulless gaze When you demoralize a creatures more than once using Intimidate, you can create stronger fear conditions rather than increasing the duration of the shaken condition

relevant skill points

Bluff: +6 skill points
diplo: +6 skill points
Intim: +6 skill points.

Relevant spell in effect: eagles splendor +4 enchantment bonus to cha

the bbeg does have the trait extremely fashionable, but is currently drenched in the lifeblood of the latest victim. as per the rules, this is negated.

So, the math pans out as

cha: 24

Bluff: +6 (skill ranks) +3 class bonus +3 feat, +7 attribute bonus = +19 total
diplo: +6 (skill ranks) +3 class bonus , +7 attribute bonus = +16 total
Intim: +6 (skill ranks) +3 class bonus +2 feat, +7 attribute bonus = +18 total

so, if i want to make an intimidate check, i roll a 1d20+18.

now, here is where id like the double check.

round 1: standard action: intimidate skill use. roll 1d20 + 18 ⇒ (12) + 18 = 30, DC 17. Hopefully i exceed the target by 5 or more.

now, the PC will have minimum one round of the shaken condition. they act, with negatives applied.

round 2: Due to having the 2nd tier damnation feat, i am able to use intimidate again, but this time, if i exceed the DC 17, i can chose to either lengthen the shaken condition, or i can increase the condition from shaken to frightened (DC 17), or if my roll is high enough, jump to panicked (DC 22). 1d20 + 18 ⇒ (17) + 18 = 35

does the effects of the conditions stack? each one says a -2 to attacks rolls (etc) is applied, so if a character is hit with the panicked condition, does that mean they suffer a -6 to attack rolls (etc)? or does it stay at -2, but they are forced to flee and what not?

[Phoebus Alexandros]

They don't stack. Each is a more extreme version of the other. The real benefit of frightened and panicked is what they force the enemy suffering from those conditions to do.

[happykj]

Same type of conditions do not stack, only the most extreme one applied. Note that when a character is panicked, he cannot attack, so penalty on attack roll does not really matter

Quote:

A panicked creature must drop anything it holds and flee at top speed from the source of its fear, as well as any other dangers it encounters, along a random path. It can’t take any other actions. In addition, the creature takes a –2 penalty on all saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. If cornered, a panicked creature cowers and does not attack, typically using the total defense action in combat. A panicked creature can use special abilities, including spells, to flee; indeed, the creature must use such means if they are the only way to escape.

Panicked is a more extreme state of fear than shaken or frightened.

[Christopher Van Horn]

More importantly, although you can re-intimidate, I believe the +5 DC for each additional attempt.

relevant rules text:

Retry? You can attempt to intimidate an opponent again, but each additional check increases the DC by +5. This increase resets after one hour has passed.

Other than that it looks good.

[Bruhma]

ok cool.
thanks for pointing that out, christopher

thanks for the help everyone!

[AwesomenessDog]

Phoebus Alexandros wrote:

They don't stack. Each is a more extreme version of the other. The real benefit of frightened and panicked is what they force the enemy suffering from those conditions to do.

I will just add a bit of important clarification, fear effects *do* in fact stack and can progress to higher levels of fear, but the intimidate skill specifically cannot raise fear levels above shaken by it's application. So if you hit someone with another fear effect, then intimidate them, nothing happens, but if you hit someone with intimidate then say cast cause fear on them, even a successful save will result in 1 round of frightened as the second shaken does progress to frightened.

CRB, p. 563 wrote:

Becoming Even More Fearful: Fear effects arecumulative. A shaken character who is made shaken again becomes frightened, and a shaken character who is made frightened becomes panicked instead. A frightened character who is made shaken or frightened becomes panicked instead.

[Phoebus Alexandros]

I should have been clearer. I meant that they don't stack for the purposes of numerical penalties applied.

[dotseth]

Retry penalties are ONLY for failures, NOT for successes. The +5 dc increase retry penalty for Intimidate is only if you fail, NOT if you succeed.

Imagine it like when you fail to pick a lock and break the tool off inside it, or fail to move silently and have the guards alerted to possible intruders. If you tried to be scary but your voice cracked and you tripped over your cloak and fell in the mud, all your subsequent Intimidate checks would be harder.

[Name Violation]

dotseth wrote:

Retry penalties are ONLY for failures, NOT for successes. The +5 dc increase retry penalty for Intimidate is only if you fail, NOT if you succeed.

Imagine it like when you fail to pick a lock and break the tool off inside it, or fail to move silently and have the guards alerted to possible intruders. If you tried to be scary but your voice cracked and you tripped over your cloak and fell in the mud, all your subsequent Intimidate checks would be harder.

no, every time after the first its an increased dc, pass or fail

intimidate wrote:

Try Again: You can attempt to Intimidate an opponent again, but each additional check increases the DC by +5. This increase resets after 1 hour has passed.

so you after get them shaken once, or coerce them into helping you and you wanna do it again within 1 hour? +5 dc. Full stop, no exception.