Spellstrike ammunition and healing spells

[DM Kaustik]

Hello, folks. How are you?

I was thinking about Spellstrike ammo and the healing spells a couple of days ago, when a player asked about the topic.

If he uses the SPammo to damage an undead creature I see no problem with the rules. Therefore, what about the casting actions used?

Since more action means a more "complex" spell with many verbal and somatic additions, can I advocate towards a player and let him Cast a Two Action Healing Spell on a SPammo to harm the undeads?

I'm a bit confused about this.

Thanks in advance.

[Chrono]

Revised wording from Player Core specifies that the spell cast on Spellstrike Ammo must be a 1-2 action spell, to clarify this - you are using the Cast a Spell action, using 2 actions regardless of whether it's a 1 or 2 action spell, and activating the ammo with it.

There shouldn't be any issue with casting a 1 or 2 action heal into Spellstrike Ammo (don't forget they do the same damage to undead, the bonus on 2 action is only for healing). They'll need to fire it before the end of their turn, or the ammo will deactivate.

Essentially two scenarios:

Arrow: 2 action Cast A Spell to activate (Heal), Strike the undead (reload 0 means drawing the arrow is free), on hit they take damage as normal and save against Heal.

Bolt/Bullet/Other Things with Reload 1+: Make sure ammo is loaded before start of turn, or use Risky Reload later on. Cast a Spell to activate, Strike to fire on the undead, on hit they take damage as normal and save against Heal.

[breithauptclan]

Chrono wrote:

don't forget they do the same damage to undead, the bonus on 2 action is only for healing

That's what I came here to say.

[Castilliano]

What happens if you crit?
If damage vs. Undead, it would double. That seems wrong for healing.

Also, this seems like a poor tactic, only useful in desperation, and with iffy results even then.

[breithauptclan]

Castilliano wrote:

What happens if you crit?

The undead target makes a save against the Heal spell as normal. That is what the Spellstrike Ammunition says.

If the spell uses a spell attack roll, you use the results of your Strike roll. So if you crit with Hydraulic Push it would double the damage due to the crit. But Spellstrike Ammunition doesn't auto-double damage for save-based spells from a crit of the Strike roll. The target has to crit-fail the save to get the doubled damage from the spell.

And Heal seems like a reasonable damage dealing spell when fighting undead. Not sure why it would be a poor tactic to use it in Spellstrike Ammunition instead of some other spell.

[Castilliano]

Thank you. (I shoulda looked for that.)

Note (at least pre-Remaster at least) Hydraulic Push doesn't double on a crit, it increases from 3d6 to 6d6, meaning you add more dice to the roll rather than simply X2. That's an important difference when Heightened (5d6 base would crit to 8d6 at 2nd, and so on). Also perhaps matters vs. crit immune creatures since it doesn't technically double, which if interpreted that way makes it useful vs. oozes, which might be intended given the flavor.

Heals are typically better as a 2-action healing or 3-action AoE.
Using a 1-action version can be efficient for being one action, but spending the same actions as a 2-action spell and only getting the value of a weaker spell seems an instant loss. And often instead of using Spellstrike ammo one could use Strike & separately cast 2-action at range w/o relying on hitting. And if one is the sort of PC to carry Spellstrike ammo and has reliable enough shooting, there are significantly better spells out there for these purposes.

So yeah, I stand by Heal via Spellstrike ammo being a desperate & iffy choice. A situation for it certainly could occur if it's the only option for the range/target/resources available, but I would avoid building for.

[breithauptclan]

Yeah, I can usually find more effect for a Heal spell than harming undead with it. But there are times...

But from the other side - assuming that the character is going to use spellstrike ammunition already - Heal seems as good of a choice as anything else. It is the spellstrike ammunition itself that is a bit niche use.

[Laclale♪]

If just healing ammo, just Life shot. It was not there until treasure vault.