"Look! No hands!" said the Kineticist

[Ravingdork]

You need a free hand to use Impulses.

Channel Elements is not an Impulse, and so doesn't require a free hand.

You can activate a 1-action Elemental Blast or Stance Impulse as part of Channel Elements.

Therefore can you use Channel Elements to activate a 1-action Elemental Blast or Stance Impulse without a free hand?

If not, is there a way we can build a kineticist that functions without having a free hand?

[Baarogue]

no

[Ravingdork]

Baarogue wrote:

no

Care to elaborate?

[Baarogue]

I'd like to say no again but you'll just post another question like this if I don't

Read subordinate actions

[YuriP]

Ravingdork wrote:

You need a free hand to use Impulses.

Channel Elements is not an Impulse, and so doesn't require a free hand.

You can activate a 1-action Elemental Blast or Stance Impulse as part of Channel Elements.

Therefore can you use Channel Elements to activate a 1-action Elemental Blast or Stance Impulse without a free hand?

If not, is there a way we can build a kineticist that functions without having a free hand?

Don't works because the Blast subordinated action is still an Impulse so you can create you aura but with you don't have a free hand you cannot use the impulse.

It's similar to what happens to Final Gate when you cannot act:

Rage of Elements pg. 13 - Final Gate wrote:

Your kinetic gate reaches a perfect form, its power constantly fighting to be released. If your kinetic aura is inactive, you automatically use the first action of your turn to Channel Elements as a free action. You can deliberately suppress the effect. If you're unable to act, final gate still functions, but you don't get to use the Elemental Blast or stance impulse you normally do from using Channel Elements.

[Ravingdork]

Baarogue wrote:

I'd like to say no again but you'll just post another question like this if I don't

Read subordinate actions

For everyone's convenience:

Subordinate Actions wrote:

An action might allow you to use a simpler action—usually one of the Basic Actions on page 469—in a different circumstance or with different effects. This subordinate action still has its normal traits and effects, but is modified in any ways listed in the larger action. For example, an activity that tells you to Stride up to half your Speed alters the normal distance you can move in a Stride. The Stride would still have the move trait, would still trigger reactions that occur based on movement, and so on. The subordinate action doesn’t gain any of the traits of the larger action unless specified. The action that allows you to use a subordinate action doesn’t require you to spend more actions or reactions to do so; that cost is already factored in.

Using an activity is not the same as using any of its subordinate actions. For example, the quickened condition you get from the haste spell lets you spend an extra action each turn to Stride or Strike, but you couldn’t use the extra action for an activity that includes a Stride or Strike. As another example, if you used an action that specified, “If the next action you use is a Strike,” an activity that includes a Strike wouldn’t count, because the next thing you are doing is starting an activity, not using the Strike basic action.

[beowulf99]

What I think Baarogue is trying to say is that nothing about Channel Elements indicates that you don't have to fulfill the prerequisites of an impulse to use said impulse as a part of Channel Elements. Also note that Channel Elements doesn't force you to use an impulse, it states that you "can".

Channel Elements wrote:

You tap into your kinetic gate to make elements flow around you. Your kinetic aura activates, and as a part of this action, you can use a 1-action Elemental Blast or a 1-action stance impulse.

Being that Channel doesn't state anything to the effect of, "You do not need to meet the prerequisites of this impulse," it stands to reason that you would still need to meet them.

No free hand, no impulse requiring a free hand.

[Ravingdork]

Seems everyone is coming to the same interpretation on the matter. That's good. Clear cut rules make everything easier.

So how might we go about looking for workarounds that will allow a kineticist to use their abilities with no hands, or at least take certain actions that would require both hands without using both hands?

Offhand, I know there is Combat Climber, which would allow a kineticist to go to town even while climbing. What other options are there?

[tiornys]

Ancestry options like Caveclimber Kobold or Climbing Tail add on to Combat Climber for e.g. Kineticists that want to use shields.

Speaking of shields, Nimble Shield Hand can let you hold a magic item (wand, staff, scroll) while leaving an open hand for Impulse use.

[YuriP]

Yeah you always will need a free-hand. You can get a free-hand with auxiliary feats like tails or a Valet familiar but effectively you still need a free hand to use an Impulse. There's no direct workaround to this.

[Captain Morgan]

The armor + shield impulses let you treat your hand as free for impulses despite holding the shield.

[Ravingdork]

YuriP wrote:

Yeah you always will need a free-hand. You can get a free-hand with auxiliary feats like tails or a Valet familiar but effectively you still need a free hand to use an Impulse. There's no direct workaround to this.

Not yet perhaps, but we're going to keep looking all the same. :)

[Cordell Kintner]

Here's something similar that may help you understand:
"Can you Sudden Charge while Immobilized? Sudden Charge doesn't have the move trait, so I can use it and then Stride as part of the action right?"

Channel Elements says "can" not "must", so if you are unable to use the actions that you "can" use, the Channel Elements still resolves successfully. No weirdness happens, nor can you use it to get around requirements.

[Ravingdork]

Cordell Kintner wrote:

Here's something similar that may help you understand:

"Can you Sudden Charge while Immobilized? Sudden Charge doesn't have the move trait, so I can use it and then Stride as part of the action right?"

Channel Elements says "can" not "must", so if you are unable to use the actions that you "can" use, the Channel Elements still resolves successfully. No weirdness happens, nor can you use it to get around requirements.

LOL. Thanks. I've understood all that for a while now. :)

[corwyn42]

All the element type feats are impulses - so everything related to the six elements are out.

The other abilities the Kineticist has that don't require a free hand are:

* Elemental Familiar

If you familiar is strong enough, you can command it to perform some of those things you want done but have no free hands for.

* Voice of Elements

Some communication abilities and Charisma based skill check buffs, but nothing helpful for combat.

* Kinetic Activation

You could prepare a staff and activate it for spells that only use the verbal trait (assuming you are holding that staff).

* Elemental Transformation/Apotheosis

You can be affected by elemental form. This would grant you a movement type that the Kineticist might not normally have (i.e. Fly for Air, Burrow for Earth, Swim for Water) that will allow the both hands full Kineticist an opportunity to flee or improve their position in combat.

* Effortless Impulse

If you have an impulse active and then perform interact actions that result in both hands being full, you can still Sustain the impulse for no actions.

* Nourishing Gate

Not really helpful in combat, but using this feat doesn't appear to require any hands free.

That is everything specific to the Kineticist class that doesn't have the impulse trait.

[Ravingdork]

Nice list, corwyn42.

corwyn42 wrote:

* Kinetic Activation

You could prepare a staff and activate it for spells that only use the verbal trait (assuming you are holding that staff).

You can cast spells even with your hands full, so you wouldn't need to limit yourself to verbal only.