Explosive Calligraphy stacking damage

[JamesG]

Hi All, first time posting,

I have an alchemist in my current game who wants to use the Explosive Calligraphy discovery,

They would like to fill a book with many uses of the pigments and then in their words use it as a "mini-nuke".

In their mind the damage stacks so the book could potentially be doing Many d6 points of damage.

I'm struggling to find any definitive answer to if this works within the rules, In the past I have ruled that alchemical items don't stack if they are all used in the same attack resolution ie, if you throw a bucket of 10 tanglefoot bags at someone they don't need to make 10 saves, take 10x the damage etc, the entire attack simply uses the value as if it was a single attack. this is mainly to prevent "cheese" tactics.

But in this case the player is quite adamant that the rules are in their favor but can't cite any particular mention that backs them up.

Anyway, any help in finding a definitive ruling would be helpful.

[Pizza Lord]

I suppose it depends on how you rule explosive runes and specifically how you rule explosive calligraphy to work. If you go by the wording, it basically functions as the spell.

There's nothing really stopping someone from placing 5 or so explosive runes into a book or something (other than it being easier to detect).

Abjuration wrote:

If one abjuration spell is active within 10 feet of another for 24 hours or more, the magical fields interfere with each other and create barely visible energy fluctuations. The DC to find such spells with the Perception skill drops by 4.

The issue is that explosive runes detonate when read and the implication seems to be that placing a rune or something takes up a reasonable amount of space.

Layering multiple runes over each other (ie. all on one page or map or scroll) should legitimately interfere with their operation. If you have 5 runes, each on their own page, that might work, but a creature that reads one rune doesn't necessarily read the others and there's no indication that the runes exploding trigger other runes. Even if your player tries to claim they're etching all identical runes on the same page and layering the inks over type each other... then the reader can say,
"I was only able to read the top layered rune, I couldn't see the inked calligraphy and rune under that one."

So I'd say he he could put as much explosive calligraphy as he wants into a book, but only one will likely be read at a time. Assuming the book survives, then someone flipping to the next page (and reading the rune/calligraphy) will trigger the next one.

[JamesG]

Yes, I do agree with your interpretation of the explosive runes spell, however, for explosive calligraphy it states

"pigments that detonate when agitated"

Therefore the idea that it won't detonate due to parts of the rune not being read is called into question, as an explosion is surely enough agitation to set off the remaining ink.

I suppose a p2 to this is, does the spell have the same trigger as the runes spell, ie needs to be read or is it another trigger ie, being agitated?

[Pizza Lord]

JamesG wrote:

I suppose a p2 to this is, does the explosive calligraphy] have the same trigger as the runes spell, ie needs to be read or is it another trigger ie, being agitated?

Explosive Runes

Explosive Calligraphy

Like I said, it depends on how you determine explosive runes to work. That will determine how explosive calligraphy will work, since it basically functions just like that (except for requiring one daily use of bombs).

The ability states that other than requiring a daily bomb use, it functions as explosive runes. Do explosive runes detonate if their page or book is shaken? Can you place a piece of paper with explosive runes on the floor face down (or face up) and have it detonated when it's stepped on like a landmine? Can you just show it or wave it in someone's direction where they can see it but too fast for them to read it? No. They have to read it.

Does explosive calligraphy explode when it's read? Probably, since that's exactly what explosive runes does, which it otherwise copies. You're asking if it can also just be detonated by someone mixing it up, possibly just throwing a bottle of ink like a bomb? If that's the case, how would that discovery be any different at all from just a regular bomb? It wouldn't... except for the part where it works like explosive runes, so why bother doing that?

Do you think the intent of the discovery is that the alchemist puts explosive calligraphy on a book and if someone picks up the book it goes off? Opens the book? If someone throw the book at someone else, is it agitated when it's picked up, when it's thrown forcefully, or when it hits someone/something?

What if it's the scriber/alchemist? Can they just 'magically' shake the book, throw it off a cliff 100' feet away, smash it with a hammer and nothing happens? Or are they able to kick it, smash it, 'agitate' it, and also read it safely, like explosive runes allows? I think that's just getting too far away from the scope of explosive runes (other than the reading part, obviously).

The first line, "The alchemist can create especially volatile pigments that detonate when agitated." is likely just flavor text. The term 'agitated' is unfortunate. The closest synonyms would be disturbed or stirred. So maybe there's an argument for it, but you also have to look at the entire context of the ability and its intent. It seems pretty clear that it's just meant to allow an alchemist an explosive runes alternative that scales to their bomb power (and allows adding a second bomb discovery, like acid or flesh-eating, to the damaging effects.

I think if you look at where the discovery comes from (PPC:HoG; Pathfinder Player Companion: Heroes of Golarion), you'll see that the other discoveries there are written the same way. They get a flavor text first sentence, I think it should be chalked up to the specific and particular writing or editing style of that sourcebook.
Constructive Dyes
Divine Inks

Basically if you omit the first sentence, the ability would still be perfectly clear and you'd avoid the issues.

[TxSam88]

since this is clearly a player trying to take advantage of a potential exploit, then the blanket answer is "No, it doesn't work"

[Derklord]

JamesG wrote:

Yes, I do agree with your interpretation of the explosive runes spell, however, for explosive calligraphy it states

"pigments that detonate when agitated"

Agitated is not a game term, and at the same time not an unambiguous enough general term to make it absolutely clear what happens. Therefore, the sentence can only be flavor text.

If the explosive script could detonate by something other than what can trigger the spell, you'd need rules for that. No such rules means no such triggers.

Pizza Lord wrote:

Basically if you omit the first sentence, the ability would still be perfectly clear and you'd avoid the issues.

Which is generally the easiest way to discern flavor text. If you can remove it without changing things in 99.9% of situations, it extremly likely wasn't meant to do something.