How many spells are in my 5th-level summoner's spell repetoire?

[Ravingdork]

At 5th level, in addition to adding two 3rd-level spells to your repertoire, you lose your lowest level of spell slots. Any time you lose a level of spell slots, you lose two spells in your repertoire as well. These can come from spells you already know or out of the number of new spells you're learning. On levels in which you don't change your spell slots, you can swap out multiple spells, as described below.

At 4th level, I had the following spells:

2nd (2 slots) speak with animals, summoner’s precaution; 1st (2 slots) fleet step, heal, lose the path; Cantrips (2nd) acid splash, electric arc, protect companion, ray of frost, tame

Now that I'm 5th-level, I'm trying to figure out how to update my repertoire, but I'm having difficulty wrapping my head around the above rule.

First, I gain two new 3rd-level slots (and their associated spells known in my repertoire). Second, I lose all my lowest level slots (and their associated spells known in my repertoire). Third, I must give up two spells in my repertoire AS WELL, which can be from spells I already know, or from the new 3rd-level spells.

Let's say that I wanted fireball and lightning bolt as my new 3rd-level spells, for example. That would leave me with the following:

3rd (2 slots) fireball, lightning bolt; 2nd (2 slots) speak with animals, summoner’s precaution; Cantrips (3rd) acid splash, electric arc, protect companion, ray of frost, tame

Wouldn't that leave me with only two spells known in my repertoire, rather than five? That doesn't seem right. What am I missing?

[RootOfAllThings]

Quote:

Second, I lose all my lowest level slots (and their associated spells known in my repertoire).

Where does it say this happens? The Spell Repertoire definition notes

Your spell slots and the spells in your spell repertoire are separate.

First, you gain two new 3rd-level slots. Second, you lose both of your lowest level slots. Third, you add two spells to your repertoire, which may be of up to third level. Fourth, you then forget two spells from your repertoire, which may be of any level.

[Ravingdork]

Ah, it seems I missed the note on separation.

So it should be something more like...

3rd (2 slots) fireball, lightning bolt; 2nd (2 slots) fleet step, heal, lose the path, speak with animals, summoner’s precaution; Cantrips (3rd) acid splash, electric arc, protect companion, ray of frost, tame

Does that look more accurate?

Thanks!

[Cordell Kintner]

Yea you should always have 5 spells known, and at least one of them needs to be usable in your lowest level slot. So you could know 4 level 3 spells and one level 2 spell and be totally fine.

[breithauptclan]

It's not quite 'always' 5 spells in Repertoire - but only because of levels 1-3 being lower.

Summoner Repertoire wrote:

At 1st level, you learn two 1st-level spells of your choice and five cantrips of your choice.

At 2nd level, you select another 1st-level spell. At 3rd level, you add the first 2nd-level spell to your repertoire. At 4th level you gain your second and your spell repertoire reaches its maximum size of five spells.

[Ravingdork]

Cordell Kintner wrote:

Yea you should always have 5 spells known, and at least one of them needs to be usable in your lowest level slot. So you could know 4 level 3 spells and one level 2 spell and be totally fine.

I thought that only became an option at level 6+?

[Cordell Kintner]

Oh yea it is. I just thought it was standard, since level 6 isn't too high of a level. My summoner is still level 5 though so I should double check their spells.

[Ascalaphus]

Just to point out the obvious - if you like a particular spell, you can of course just keep the heightened version in your repertoire. For example, a level 9 summoner might have lightning bolt as a level 5 spell in their repertoire.

[breithauptclan]

Ravingdork wrote:

Cordell Kintner wrote:

Yea you should always have 5 spells known, and at least one of them needs to be usable in your lowest level slot. So you could know 4 level 3 spells and one level 2 spell and be totally fine.

I thought that only became an option at level 6+?

Level 4. As it says in the Repertoire section of Summoner. That is when you get 5 spells in Repertoire. And it doesn't increase in size from there.

Level 6 is the first level where you can freely switch out your entire repertoire as part of leveling up.

[Perpdepog]

Ascalaphus wrote:

Just to point out the obvious - if you like a particular spell, you can of course just keep the heightened version in your repertoire. For example, a level 9 summoner might have lightning bolt as a level 5 spell in their repertoire.

Yup. I did that exact thing when I played a summoner, kept lightning bolt in my repertoire until I was able to learn chain lightning and then swapped it out.

[Dragonchess Player]

Technically it's not in your repertoire, but the Shadowcaster archetype feat Shadow Reservoir can allow you to "keep" known spells of lower level. Granted, you don't gain corresponding spell slots like multiclassed archetype Basic, etc. Spellcasting; however, you can still arguably cast heightened versions with Unlimited Signature Spells if you want a bit more versatility.

[Feragore]

As levels 1 to 4 are fixed, by 4th you'll have 3 1st level spells and 2 2nd-level spells in a repertoire.

When reaching 5th, as you lose just two spells and gain two more, you will still have at minimum one 1st-level spell in your repertoire until you freely replace and any all spells at 6th.

With Unlimited Signatures, it's not a major problem as you likely can get a 1st-level spell that heightens well like Soothe or Heal. Less easy for Arcane though.

[tiornys]

Plenty of Arcane spells scale well into 2nd/3rd rank, including but not limited to Fear, Illusory Object, Magic Missile, Fear, Shockwave, Animate Dead/Summon Animal/Construct, Fear, or True Strike.