
Adraius |
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This post borrows heavily from this one over in the PF2e reddit community, which is the most comprehensive summation of multiple discussions there on the topic. In short, currently the spellcasting abilities of spellhearts are only usable by spellcasters (specifically, characters will the Spellcasting class feature), but there is significant circumstantial evidence this is not the design intention of spellhearts. With the apparent delay of the spring errata and the Remaster on its way, this issue is in need of attention.
According to the rules under Activate an Item:
If an item lists “Cast a Spell” after “Activate,” the activation requires you to use the Cast a Spell activity to Activate the Item. This happens when the item replicates a spell. You must have a spellcasting class feature to Activate an Item with this activation component.
This prevents many classes from using the spellcasting abilities of spellhearts. There is a good deal of circumstantial evidence this is not intended:
1) When spellhearts came out in Secrets of Magic, they were basically advertised as "permanent talismans." Barring specific abilities like those of Talisman Dabbler, you can either have a talisman or a spellheart affixed, but not both, and talismans are generally geared toward martials.
2) Spellhearts have set DCs (with the partial exception of the cantrip's DC). Items specifically geared toward casters (scrolls, wands, staves, etc.) typically omit a DC for its usage and allow the caster to use their own spell DC, while items intended for use by any character that replicate spells typically use set DCs. The fact that spellhearts have set DCs implies they are meant to be used by those who don't usually have a spell DC.
3) Spellhearts have benefits if you affix them to a weapon and in ways that support typical martial playstyles and actions, like the Strike action.
4) On page 124 of Treasure Vault, where the new spellhearts get presented, there is an art of the iconic thaumaturge using a spellheart - likely either an enigma mirror or a phantasmal doorknob - when it would be a very poor fit for the non-Spellcasting thaumaturge. This isn't strong evidence, as they could still get some benefit from the item and sometimes there can be confusion or miscommunication in the art pipeline, but bears mentioning.
5) On page 127 of Treasure Vault, there is an 'in-character' sidebar that reads as follows:
[Spellhearts are] rather ingenious, combining the simple magic of talismans with the more complex and enduring spellforms typically used in wands—and without requiring innate magical skill from the user.
Taken together, there is substantial confusion over the intended use of spellhearts. If casting spells from spellhearts is intended to be only possible by characters with the Spellcasting class feature, this should be called out more prominently. If it is intended to be an option for any character, the rules need to be amended to allow it.

Kyle_TheBuilder |
I would also appreciate errata or just clarification from Paizo regarding that as I also got impression from reading Treasure Vault that Spellhearts that they were supposed to work with non-spell casting classes to give them small casting benefits limited to one spellheart aflixed to armor/weapon. Truth to be told, they seem to be way more attractive by design for martials/non-spellcaster than spellcasters. Their benefits (apart from Jolt Coil) are minor for casters, while utility-significant for non-spellcasters. And quote from Valashinaz, Mistress of the Vault as mentioned above at least confirms that in lore. Plus all other suggestive stuff OP mentioned that gave me same impression.
At our table to go with what we think was RAI and allow anyone to use spellhearts, and it causes ZERO balance issues. Frankly apart from Jolt Coil it's our martials who even want to spend gold on Spellhearts since our casters don't see much reason for them as they can cast those low level cantrips/spells anyway.

breithauptclan |

Yes, the spellcasting archetypes need errata/clarification regarding how to get the spellcasting class feature and what the spellcasting class feature is needed for regarding item activation.
No, I don't feel like getting into the debate about it again. Search the forums for one of the many other threads on the subject.

Farien |

A spellcasting Dedication such as Druid is enough for a spellheart because of : "You cast spells like a druid. You gain access to the Cast a Spell activity."
Which obviously means that from the dedication feat you immediately gain spellcasting abilities completely on-par with a full class Druid. Same spell levels, same number of spell slots. Because otherwise you wouldn't actually be casting spells like a Druid, right?

HammerJack |
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A spellcasting Dedication such as Druid is enough for a spellheart because of : "You cast spells like a druid. You gain access to the Cast a Spell activity."
But yes, it could be clearer / more consistent.
That is not correct.
Cast a Spell
If an item lists “Cast a Spell” after “Activate,” the activation requires you to use the Cast a Spell activity to Activate the Item. This happens when the item replicates a spell. You must have a spellcasting class feature to Activate an Item with this activation component. If the item can be used for a specific spell, the action icon for that spell is provided. If it's an item like a staff, which can be used for many spells, the icon is omitted, and you must refer to each spell to determine which actions you must spend to Activate the Item to cast it.In this case, Activate an Item gains all the traits from the relevant components of the Cast a Spell activity.
Some archetypes grant you spellcasting abilities, albeit delayed compared to a character from a spellcasting class. In this book, the spellcasting archetypes are bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, and wizard, but future books might introduce spellcasting archetypes that aren't multiclass archetypes. A spellcasting archetype allows you to use scrolls, staves, and wands in the same way that a member of a spellcasting class can, and the basic spellcasting feat counts as having a spellcasting class feature.
Spellcasting archetypes always grant the ability to cast cantrips in their dedication, and then they have a basic spellcasting feat, an expert spellcasting feat, and a master spellcasting feat. These feats share their name with the archetype; for instance, the wizard's master spellcasting feat is called Master Wizard Spellcasting. All spell slots you gain from spellcasting archetypes have restrictions depending on the archetype; for instance, the bard archetype grants you spell slots you can use only to cast occult spells from your bard repertoire, even if you are a sorcerer with occult spells in your sorcerer repertoire.
Basic Spellcasting Feat: Usually gained at 4th level, these feats grant a 1st-level spell slot. At 6th level, they grant you a 2nd-level spell slot, and if you have a spell repertoire, you can select one spell from your repertoire as a signature spell. At 8th level, they grant you a 3rd-level spell slot. Archetypes refer to these benefits as the "basic spellcasting benefits".
Expert Spellcasting Feat: Usually taken at 12th level, these feats make you an expert in spell attack rolls and DCs of the appropriate magical tradition and grant you a 4th-level spell slot. If you have a spell repertoire, you can select a second spell from your repertoire as a signature spell. At 14th level, they grant you a 5th-level spell slot, and at 16th level, they grant you a 6th-level spell slot. Archetypes refer to these benefits as the "expert spellcasting benefits".
Master Spellcasting Feat: Usually appearing at 18th level, these feats make you a master in spell attack rolls and DCs of the appropriate magical tradition and grant you a 7th-level spell slot. If you have a spell repertoire, you can select a third spell from your repertoire as a signature spell. At 20th level, they grant you an 8th-level spell slot. Archetypes refer to these benefits as the "master spellcasting benefits".
Having the Cast A Spell activity is not the full requirement to cast from a spellheart. Having a spellcasting class feature is. With an archetype, it is the Basic Spellcasting Feat that fulfills that requirement, not the dedication.
The rules are nested enough to make it not intuitive, and could stand to be cleaned up, but the answer is there. What real debate exists is a debate between what the rules are, and flavor entries that read to a number of people as though the rules were intended to be different from what they are.
The other common misconception is people thinking that monks, rangers and champions qualify, because they missed the rules about non-casters with focus spells on page 302:
If you get focus spells from a class or other source that doesn’t grant spellcasting ability (for example, if you’re a monk with the Ki Strike feat), the ability that gives you focus spells also provides your proficiency rank for spell attack rolls and spell DCs, as well as the magical tradition of your focus spells. You gain the ability to Cast a Spell and use any spellcasting actions necessary to cast your focus spells (see below). However, you don’t qualify for feats and other rules that require you to be a spellcaster.

Errenor |
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Truth to be told, they seem to be way more attractive by design for martials/non-spellcaster than spellcasters. Their benefits (apart from Jolt Coil) are minor for casters, while utility-significant for non-spellcasters.
What?! Gaining TWO slots for cantrips for only money (meaning basically for free) is AWESOME! Also some spellhearts even have constant effects useful even for casters. Perfect Droplet is so nice (or at least flavourful).

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I've found them really handy for divine casters, because currently the divine list is a bit light on attack cantrips that work on all enemies. Divine Lance and Disrupt Undead are good when they're good, but they won't help you against say, an angry bear.
It's weird though, feels a bit like an oversight that we happen to like.
On the other hand, spellhearts having a DC and spell level is also weird; casters almost always have better stats when they're at that item level, and RAW, non-casters can't activate those spells. So that also looks like an oversight.

25speedforseaweedleshy |
Kyle_TheBuilder wrote:Truth to be told, they seem to be way more attractive by design for martials/non-spellcaster than spellcasters. Their benefits (apart from Jolt Coil) are minor for casters, while utility-significant for non-spellcasters.What?! Gaining TWO slots for cantrips for only money (meaning basically for free) is AWESOME! Also some spellhearts even have constant effects useful even for casters. Perfect Droplet is so nice (or at least flavourful).
with treasure vault adding vigilant eye saurian spike the competition are intense
expect most player will not choose spellheart base on cantrip they carry