Is the Atlatl meant to destroy darts?


Rules Discussion


The atlatl description reads:

Treasure Vault, pg 30 wrote:
Atlatls are long, narrow pieces of shaped wood or antler used as levers to hurl darts faster and farther than would otherwise be possible. An atlatl uses darts as ammunition.

The dart is a thrown ranged weapon in the CRB. AFAIK the atlatl is the only instance of a weapon using another weapon as ammunition.

The last sentence of the Ammunition rules (CRB 280) states "Using ammunition destroys it." However, it is presumed that in normal circumstances, a thrown weapon can be retrived after it has been thrown (I couldn't find a rule that expliciotly stated as such, but there isn't one that says that's not the case either).

In the case of the atlatl, a dart is a thrown weapon being used as ammunition. So when you make an attack with the atlatl, does the rules for ammunition take precidence over the assumption that you can pick up thrown weapons? If yes, then every time you attack with an atlatl you will destroy a dart that wouldn't have been destroyed had you used it on its own.

It could be inturpreted that the atlatl destroying your otherwise reusable darts is the tradeoff for the improved damage, but is that the actual design intention?


Well, the atlatl has reload 1 on it. So there's a malice that somewhat balances out the improved damage and range.

Of course, darts have to be drawn and prior to their use unless you have the returning rune. And if you start trying to enchant multiple, it gets expensive. Unless you grab the thrower's bandolier.

Probably if you were going to focus on darts, you would want both the returning rune and throwers bandolier (in case something happened to your dart you would have more). The returning rune would prevent you from needing to draw.

None of this however answer the question, is the dart destroyed, I was just trying to see if there was a lot of penalty to using the atlatl compared to a dart alone. But honestly it's a wash in my mind.

I'm probably just going to use a throwing knife or javelin if I need simple thrown weapons.


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Well, a dart costs 1 cp. And a pack of 10 arrows costs 1 sp. So unless my math is wrong, 10 darts would also cost 1 sp.

So it actually makes a lot of sense to use an Atlatl and treat the darts fully as ammunition (meaning that the darts are destroyed like normal ammunition, they get the rune effects transferred from the Atlatl itself rather than being individually etched, and drawing the darts is part of the reload action).


breithauptclan wrote:

Well, a dart costs 1 cp. And a pack of 10 arrows costs 1 sp. So unless my math is wrong, 10 darts would also cost 1 sp.

So it actually makes a lot of sense to use an Atlatl and treat the darts fully as ammunition (meaning that the darts are destroyed like normal ammunition, they get the rune effects transferred from the Atlatl itself rather than being individually etched, and drawing the darts is part of the reload action).

While the monatary cost is the same, there's also the bulk cost. 10 arrows is L bulk. One dart is also L bulk. 10 L = 1 bulk.

So with arrows you can spend 1 gp for 100 arrows that will take up 1 bulk, but if you spent the same 1 gold on 100 darts you'd be carrying 10 Bulk worth of darts (which would likely encumber even the strongest barbarian when stacked on top of their other gear—not that I'm saying a barbarian actually wants to carry darts).

It's very unlikely that anyone needs or even wants to carry 100 darts, but just 10 darts is 1 bulk, which is a considerable weight for most folk and significantly less efficent when compared to all other ammo types. You wouldn't need to carry a lot of darts, however, if they weren't destroyed when used; you'd only need to carry as many as you'd expect to use each fight, in a similar fashion to how I expect many people treat thrown weapons.

Liberty's Edge

breithauptclan wrote:

Well, a dart costs 1 cp. And a pack of 10 arrows costs 1 sp. So unless my math is wrong, 10 darts would also cost 1 sp.

So it actually makes a lot of sense to use an Atlatl and treat the darts fully as ammunition (meaning that the darts are destroyed like normal ammunition, they get the rune effects transferred from the Atlatl itself rather than being individually etched, and drawing the darts is part of the reload action).

What happens if the dart already has runes on it ?


The Raven Black wrote:
breithauptclan wrote:

Well, a dart costs 1 cp. And a pack of 10 arrows costs 1 sp. So unless my math is wrong, 10 darts would also cost 1 sp.

So it actually makes a lot of sense to use an Atlatl and treat the darts fully as ammunition (meaning that the darts are destroyed like normal ammunition, they get the rune effects transferred from the Atlatl itself rather than being individually etched, and drawing the darts is part of the reload action).

What happens if the dart already has runes on it ?
Ammunition, CRB PG 280 wrote:
Some entries in the ranged weapons tables are followed by an entry indicating the type of ammunition that weapon launches. The damage die is determined by the weapon, not the ammunition. Because that and other relevant statistics vary by weapon, ammunition entries list only the name, quantity, Price, and Bulk. Using ammunition destroys it.

This seems to indicate that the Damage dealt by the atlatl is determined by the weapon, not the ammunition. It logically follows then that no damage additive runes placed on a dart would work during a strike using an atlatl. Other runes like Returning are... not accounted for as far as I know. So I guess ask your GM, and let them ponder on that for a while.

For me, I would allow returning to work for simplicity if nothing else. It's not really a good deal, since a returning rune costs 55gp, or the cost of 5500 Darts. This basically just let's you hand waive away buying ammo for the atlatl. It does save you on bulk I suppose.

Other runes? Probably none. At least in my opinion.


The Raven Black wrote:
breithauptclan wrote:

Well, a dart costs 1 cp. And a pack of 10 arrows costs 1 sp. So unless my math is wrong, 10 darts would also cost 1 sp.

So it actually makes a lot of sense to use an Atlatl and treat the darts fully as ammunition (meaning that the darts are destroyed like normal ammunition, they get the rune effects transferred from the Atlatl itself rather than being individually etched, and drawing the darts is part of the reload action).

What happens if the dart already has runes on it ?

Why would you want to use a dart that has runes on it as ammunition in an atlatl? The runes would be destroyed along with the dart. But if someone did, I would have one set of runes be disabled and use the other - either the runes from the dart, or the runes from the atlatl. The rules in other places where runes are duplicated onto another item (such as the Doubling Rings) mention that any existing runes are suppressed. Only class features that have a fixed list of rune effects (like Champion Blade Ally) allow adding rune effects to a weapon that has runes on it already.

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It would probably be best to have the darts used as ammunition in an atlatl be a mechanically different item than the darts that are thrown weapons. That would make all of this a lot easier.

Including the bulk difference - since they are separate items, they can have a different bulk rating. But that is getting into houserule territory.

Liberty's Edge

What would make it easier would be to have atlatl not as a weapon but as another kind of item that boosts darts thrown with it.


The Raven Black wrote:
What would make it easier would be to have atlatl not as a weapon but as another kind of item that boosts darts thrown with it.

Well, that would certainly work too - though in the opposite direction. Instead of making atlatl darts be ammunition, it would make the atlatl not be a weapon.

Making atlatl darts be fully ammunition is probably a houserule. Making the atlatl not be a weapon definitely is.

But there is nothing wrong with houserules - especially when the printed rules have problems of this magnitude.

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