Cantrip via Wayfinder Resonance Tinkerer?

[Chris_Fougere]

How does one calculate the attack/save DC? Is it an innate spell? Does the person need to have proficiency in spell attacks and spell save DC?

[logsig]

Yes, it would be an innate spell, as is generally the case with options that grant spells but that don't require a spellcasting class feature.

Innate spells use Charisma as the ability score for spellcasting. You're always at least trained in spell attack rolls and spell DCs for your innate spells, even if you have no class-based spellcasting ability (if your proficiency is better than trained, you use that).

Spell attack and DC are calculated in the usual way:

Spell attack = d20 + ability modifier used for spellcasting (CHA for innate spells) + proficiency bonus + other bonuses + penalties
Spell DC = 10 + ability modifier used for spellcasting (CHA for innate spells) + proficiency bonus + other bonuses + penalties

Rules references:
- Innate spells
- Spell attack and DC

[Cordell Kintner]

It's not an innate spell, it says "You can activate your wayfinder to cast that cantrip at will"

This would use the Activate an Item rules, and since it doesn't specify what actions are needed to Activate it, you should default to Cast a Spell. This means you can't activate it without the Spellcasting Class feature. The closest analogy to this would be a Spellheart.

That whole archetype is written poorly though, so if you're in a home game it's best to work with your GM on changes for the archetype to not be bad.

[The Raven Black]

It is not an innate spell. It is, as Cordell Kintner states above, the result of Activating the wayfinder.

This uses the Activate (Command) action mentioned in the wayfinder's entry for casting Light.

Basically, what the feat does is giving you more cantrips, in addition to Light, that you can cast by Activating the wayfinder.

It does not require having the Spellcasting class feature. It is not similar to a Spellheart. Anyone can Activate it.

[Thezzaruz]

The Raven Black wrote:

This uses the Activate (Command) action mentioned in the wayfinder's entry for casting Light.

Basically, what the feat does is giving you more cantrips, in addition to Light, that you can cast by Activating the wayfinder.

It would seem that that is the intention even though that part of the feat is poorly written.

Can't say that I like it though. Allowing someone to pick any cantrip and have it be cast as a single action (instead of how many it would normally have) seems quite broken. 3 Electric Arc's per turn anyone?

[Baarogue]

>This uses the Activate (Command) action mentioned in the wayfinder's entry for casting Light.

Hmm, no I don't think I agree with this

"Activate 1 action command; Effect The wayfinder is targeted by a 1st-level light spell."

That's a defined activation with a set target. The wayfinder is targeted by 1st level Light. The user isn't casting the spell, which is what makes it usable by anyone with no feat investment or class features

"You can activate your wayfinder to cast that cantrip at will."

That's definitely saying the user is casting the spell, so I would adhere to the action cost of the cantrip and require using the Cast a Spell activity. I'm not sure I would require having the full-blown spellcasting class feature for this usage though, since this is an ability granted by that feat (via specific vs. general), which is available to all classes through that archetype

[Chris_Fougere]

Cordell Kintner wrote:

It's not an innate spell, it says "You can activate your wayfinder to cast that cantrip at will"

This would use the Activate an Item rules, and since it doesn't specify what actions are needed to Activate it, you should default to Cast a Spell. This means you can't activate it without the Spellcasting Class feature. The closest analogy to this would be a Spellheart.

That whole archetype is written poorly though, so if you're in a home game it's best to work with your GM on changes for the archetype to not be bad.

Alternately "Certain spells are natural to your character, typically coming from your ancestry OR A MAGIC ITEM" which to me indicates it would follow the rules for innate magic item.

It's easy enough to HR that the activation takes however many actions the cantrip would normally take.

[Cordell Kintner]

Chris_Fougere wrote:

Cordell Kintner wrote:

It's not an innate spell, it says "You can activate your wayfinder to cast that cantrip at will"

This would use the Activate an Item rules, and since it doesn't specify what actions are needed to Activate it, you should default to Cast a Spell. This means you can't activate it without the Spellcasting Class feature. The closest analogy to this would be a Spellheart.

That whole archetype is written poorly though, so if you're in a home game it's best to work with your GM on changes for the archetype to not be bad.

Alternately "Certain spells are natural to your character, typically coming from your ancestry OR A MAGIC ITEM" which to me indicates it would follow the rules for innate magic item.

It's easy enough to HR that the activation takes however many actions the cantrip would normally take.

Certain items grant innate spells, such as the Pendant of the Occult giving you Guidance as an innate cantrip. If this gave you an innate spell it would say it was innate, but it doesn't.

Is that the intent? Probably. But as written it requires you to Activate the Item.

[Chris_Fougere]

Cordell Kintner wrote:

Chris_Fougere wrote:

Cordell Kintner wrote:

It's not an innate spell, it says "You can activate your wayfinder to cast that cantrip at will"

This would use the Activate an Item rules, and since it doesn't specify what actions are needed to Activate it, you should default to Cast a Spell. This means you can't activate it without the Spellcasting Class feature. The closest analogy to this would be a Spellheart.

That whole archetype is written poorly though, so if you're in a home game it's best to work with your GM on changes for the archetype to not be bad.

Alternately "Certain spells are natural to your character, typically coming from your ancestry OR A MAGIC ITEM" which to me indicates it would follow the rules for innate magic item.

It's easy enough to HR that the activation takes however many actions the cantrip would normally take.

Certain items grant innate spells, such as the Pendant of the Occult giving you Guidance as an innate cantrip. If this gave you an innate spell it would say it was innate, but it doesn't.

Is that the intent? Probably. But as written it requires you to Activate the Item.

Since I'm the GM and don't need to convince anyone I think I'm just going to rule that it's figured as an Innate spell with an activation action cost equal to the normal cantrip casting time. Doing so doesn't seem like it'll break anything so I'm good.

Thanks for the advice folks!

[The Raven Black]

Thezzaruz wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

This uses the Activate (Command) action mentioned in the wayfinder's entry for casting Light.

Basically, what the feat does is giving you more cantrips, in addition to Light, that you can cast by Activating the wayfinder.

It would seem that that is the intention even though that part of the feat is poorly written.

Can't say that I like it though. Allowing someone to pick any cantrip and have it be cast as a single action (instead of how many it would normally have) seems quite broken. 3 Electric Arc's per turn anyone?

That is a very good point. So, maybe it just gives another Cantrip to anyone with a Spellcasting dedication, like Cordell Kintner stated. Which feels a bit weak for a level 4 Dedication Class feat, but maybe it is balanced by the picking from any tradition aspect.

A bit sad. I thought it would be a nice way to get a cantrip for a Martial.