Charisma and sacred bonus to AC against touch attacks


Rules Questions


Hello, I'm a bit confused about those two bonuses.

If a character has a charisma and a sacred bonus to normal AC they count also for the touch AC against touch attacks?


The Touch Attacks section under the rules specifies that all modifiers besides your armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus apply to your Touch AC.

Charisma modifiers would fall under the above rule structure. For example, a Paladin gains a deflection bonus equal to her Charisma modifier. Deflection bonuses apply to your Touch AC. An Oracle with the Nature Mystery that picks the Nature's Whispers Revelation adds her Charisma modifier, instead of her Dexterity modifier, to her Armor Class and CMD. It, too, would work.

Shadow Lodge

Ronelim Walker wrote:

Hello, I'm a bit confused about those two bonuses.

If a character has a charisma and a sacred bonus to normal AC they count also for the touch AC against touch attacks?

Which specific abilities are you referring to? The answer to this sort of question is very likely going to hang on the specific ability texts...


Taja the Barbarian wrote:
Ronelim Walker wrote:

Hello, I'm a bit confused about those two bonuses.

If a character has a charisma and a sacred bonus to normal AC they count also for the touch AC against touch attacks?

Which specific abilities are you referring to? The answer to this sort of question is very likely going to hang on the specific ability texts...

I was thinking about the sacred bonuses on AC of the Vindicator’s Shield and the Stigmata of the Holy Vindicator.

Those two bonuses on AC can be put on the touch AC? Plus those two bonuses stack togheter (because one bonus is on the shield, the other is on the character)?


The Stigmata grant a Sacred bonus to Armor Class. That one works for Touch AC, the same as any modifier that isn't an armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus.

The Vindicator's Shield is a bit trickier, because it stems from a shield... and shields don't count toward Touch AC. I imagine most GMs would rule it works because it's ultimately a Sacred bonus to AC, not a Shield bonus. Regardless, it's a moot point: you can't stack Sacred bonuses to AC, even if they're from different sources.

Shadow Lodge

Source Advanced Player's Guide pg. 263

...
Vindicator's Shield (Su): A vindicator can channel energy into his shield as a standard action; when worn, the shield gives the vindicator a sacred bonus (if positive energy) or profane bonus (if negative energy) to his Armor Class equal to the number of dice of the vindicator's channel energy. This bonus lasts for 24 hours or until the vindicator is struck in combat, whichever comes first. The shield does not provide this bonus to any other wielder, but the vindicator does not need to be holding the shield for it to retain this power.

Stigmata (Su): A vindicator willingly gives his blood in service to his faith, and is marked by scarified wounds appropriate to his deity. He may stop or start the flow of blood by force of will as a standard action; at 6th level it becomes a move action, and at 10th level it becomes a swift action. Activating stigmata causes bleed damage equal to half the vindicator's class level, and this bleed damage is not halted by curative magic. While the stigmata are bleeding, the vindicator gains a sacred bonus (if he channels positive energy) or profane bonus (if he channels negative energy) equal to half his class level. Each time he activates his stigmata, the vindicator decides if the bonus applies to attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, Armor Class, caster level checks, or saving throws; to change what the bonus applies to, the vindicator must deactivate and reactivate his stigmata.

While his stigmata are bleeding, the vindicator ignores blood drain and bleed damage from any other source and can use bleed or stabilize at will as a standard action.
...

A Sacred Bonus to your AC will not 'stack' with another Sacred Bonus to your AC unless it specifically states that it will stack.

Source PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 11

...
Bonus: Bonuses are numerical values that are added to checks and statistical scores. Most bonuses have a type, and as a general rule, bonuses of the same type are not cumulative (do not “stack”)—only the greater bonus granted applies.
...
Stacking: Stacking refers to the act of adding together bonuses or penalties that apply to one particular check or statistic. Generally speaking, most bonuses of the same type do not stack. Instead, only the highest bonus applies. Most penalties do stack, meaning that their values are added together. Penalties and bonuses generally stack with one another, meaning that the penalties might negate or exceed part or all of the bonuses, and vice versa.
...
That being said, either one of these buffs should increase your Touch AC along with your normal AC (although as Phoebus noted, the shield buff might be questionable due to its 'flavor' but mechanically it should work).

Source PRPG Core Rulebook pg. 179

...
Touch Attacks: Some attacks completely disregard armor, including shields and natural armor—the aggressor need only touch a foe for such an attack to take full effect. In these cases, the attacker makes a touch attack roll (either ranged or melee). When you are the target of a touch attack, your AC doesn't include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. All other modifiers, such as your size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) apply normally. Some creatures have the ability to make incorporeal touch attacks. These attacks bypass solid objects, such as armor and shields, by passing through them. Incorporeal touch attacks work similarly to normal touch attacks except that they also ignore cover bonuses. Incorporeal touch attacks do not ignore armor bonuses granted by force effects, such as mage armor and bracers of armor.
...


The CHA bonus is not a bonus type. When you apply your CHA bonus to AC it will have a type of bonus and that is what counts. In your case both of them are sacred bonuses. Since a sacred bonus does apply to touch AC it will apply to your touch AC. The only thing your CHA does is to determine the value of the bonus, other than that it has does not matter.

The same is going to be true if the bonus was a different type. For example, paladins smite evil grants you a deflection bonus to AC. The bonus to AC is treated like a deflection bonus for all purposes. If the character already has a deflection bonus from another source, he takes the greater of the two when using smite evil.

Ignore the fact the bonus is equal to your CHA bonus and focus on the bonus type.

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