Student of Perfection and Jalmeri Heeavenseeker requirements

[Nadlor]

I'm a bit confused regarding requirements to choose a different dedication feat after Student of Perfection and Jalmeri Heeavenseeker. JH says "You can select the dedication feat for the Jalmeri Heavenseeker archetype even if you haven't yet gained three feats from the Student or Perfection archetype". It also says "You can't select another dedication feat until you gain two other feats from the Jalmeri Heavenseeker or Student of Perfection archetypes", but Student of Perfection makes no mention of this.

Is "Student of Perfection Dedication - Jalmeri Heavenseeker Dedication - Heaven's Thunder - a different dedication feat" legal? It seems like the intent is to treat both archetypes as if they were the same (so this would be 3 feats allowing to select a different archetype dedication), but I'm not 100% sure.

In addition, JH prerequisites mentions "Student of Perfection Dedication, or you've trained with a champion of the Challenge of Sky and Heaven". Does that mean I could select this without a previous SoP dedication if I say my PC has been trained by a champion of the challenge of sky and heaven?

[Baarogue]

Nadlor wrote:

I'm a bit confused regarding requirements to choose a different dedication feat after Student of Perfection and Jalmeri Heeavenseeker. JH says "You can select the dedication feat for the Jalmeri Heavenseeker archetype even if you haven't yet gained three feats from the Student or Perfection archetype". It also says "You can't select another dedication feat until you gain two other feats from the Jalmeri Heavenseeker or Student of Perfection archetypes", but Student of Perfection makes no mention of this.

Is "Student of Perfection Dedication - Jalmeri Heavenseeker Dedication - Heaven's Thunder - a different dedication feat" legal? It seems like the intent is to treat both archetypes as if they were the same (so this would be 3 feats allowing to select a different archetype dedication), but I'm not 100% sure.

In addition, JH prerequisites mentions "Student of Perfection Dedication, or you've trained with a champion of the Challenge of Sky and Heaven". Does that mean I could select this without a previous SoP dedication if I say my PC has been trained by a champion of the challenge of sky and heaven?

What do you mean by >Student of Perfection makes no mention of this

Student of Perfection AT

SoP Dedication wrote:

Special You can’t select another dedication feat until you have gained two other feats from the student of perfection archetype.

So no, you would need two feats from SoP to be allowed to pick up a dedication other than JH

Also, all of this stuff is Uncommon. Are you asking for a home game or PFS? Are you a player or the GM? If a home game, you should ask your GM if you can just "say" you were trained by some soandso to meet the JH's requirement. If PFS, you probably need to follow the access rules and take the SoP dedication, but asking in the PFS board would be a good bet

[Ascalaphus]

Nadlor wrote:

I'm a bit confused regarding requirements to choose a different dedication feat after Student of Perfection and Jalmeri Heeavenseeker. JH says "You can select the dedication feat for the Jalmeri Heavenseeker archetype even if you haven't yet gained three feats from the Student or Perfection archetype". It also says "You can't select another dedication feat until you gain two other feats from the Jalmeri Heavenseeker or Student of Perfection archetypes", but Student of Perfection makes no mention of this.

Yes, Student of Perfection was published a couple of years earlier.

Nadlor wrote:

Is "Student of Perfection Dedication - Jalmeri Heavenseeker Dedication - Heaven's Thunder - a different dedication feat" legal? It seems like the intent is to treat both archetypes as if they were the same (so this would be 3 feats allowing to select a different archetype dedication), but I'm not 100% sure.

No, they're still separate archetypes. After 3 feats in total from Student of Perfection and Heavenseeker, you'd be done with Heavenseeker, but not yet with Student. The requirement is NOT symmetric.

The quickest way to finish is to take two more Student feats, that way you've satisfied the condition for Student and also for Heavenseeker.

Nadlor wrote:

In addition, JH prerequisites mentions "Student of Perfection Dedication, or you've trained with a champion of the Challenge of Sky and Heaven". Does that mean I could select this without a previous SoP dedication if I say my PC has been trained by a champion of the challenge of sky and heaven?

Yes. And in that case you could be done by taking two more Heavenseeker feats, since you only have to deal with the Heavenseeker exit condition, not the Student exit condition.

[Nadlor]

Thanks for the clear, useful answers!

[roquepo]

Yup, they are separate.

I still don't get why they didn't change the SoP dedication with the last LO book so you can pick Heavenseeker without meeting the feat requirements, though. No way of getting the Heavenseeker dedication at 4 as a monk without GM fiat otherwise.