Unmodified rolls clarification required

[Andrew Read 583]

I'm a newbie to P2, so I'm still working through the rules before running a game.
I noticed a couple of examples of rolling against a target number with no modifications (an undetected target for example), with the player needing to roll an 11+ to succeed.

I'm surprised that such rules exist in P2, as we have a rule for pretty much any circumstance, and we know that the little +/-1 here and there all add up, so it baffles me that the best we have for such a circumstance is what boils down to a coin toss.

It feels like the old 3.5 concealment rules, where you could successfully hit a target, but then there was a 50/50 chance of actually missing, which was frustrating.

Surely it makes more sense to allow a single role to hit the undetected target, but with a hefty modifier. Perhaps it provides +5 AC or some such.

Anyone had any thoughts on this subject?

[YuriP]

This works exactly like the 3.5/PF1 rules works.
If for some reason your primary sense (normally vision) is unable to detect a creature or object but you have ways to know it's position (what's square is) you have 50% (simple DC 11 roll without proficiency or modifiers) to try to hit (you still need to roll a Strike vs AC too).
This basically cut your hit chances by half when you are unable to see your target.

The same happens to concealed creatures (creatures concealed by low-light or some kind of camouflage or that for some reason are harder to see) you 20% (simple DC 5 roll without proficiency or modifiers) to try to hit (you still need to roll a Strike vs AC too).

I may agree that designers could just simplified this justing giving some attack penalties but using a simple check they prevented that the hit vs AC difference affect too much the visibility conditions, specially this protects low level creatures to stay much easier to hit due the level difference even against a blinded creature.

[breithauptclan]

Andrew Read 583 wrote:

I'm surprised that such rules exist in P2, as we have a rule for pretty much any circumstance, and we know that the little +/-1 here and there all add up, so it baffles me that the best we have for such a circumstance is what boils down to a coin toss.

It feels like the old 3.5 concealment rules, where you could successfully hit a target, but then there was a 50/50 chance of actually missing, which was frustrating.

It is exactly like the percentile rolls in 3.5. The only real difference is that flat checks are locked into being set to increments of 5%. With percentile dice you could have a 48% chance of something happening. With a flat check, you have to pick either 45% or 50%.

And the entire point is to have things that are completely based on chance. No skill or planning on the part of the players is able to modify it.

[Cordell Kintner]

What you are describing are called Flat Checks. The rules for Flat Checks even explain that they are intended for things that solely rely on luck.

If you want to beat an Invisible enemy, use spells like Glitterdust or Faerie Fire, or pick up feats like Blind Fight. If you don't want your Recovery Checks to be DC10 + Dying value, pick up Toughness to lower the DC by 1.

There are ways to reduce the DC of certain flat checks, but you can never get a modifier on the roll. It's always based on pure luck.

Also, as a reminder, you can use a Hero Point to re-roll a Flat Check.