Half-Elf plus Tiefling -- how to?


Rules Discussion


Back in the 1st edition of Pathfinder, I wrote up a tiefling character, with the following description:

(Franklin) wrote:
delicate (elf-like) features... smooth, dark red (brick red?) complexion... long, wavy, lustrous black hair... almond-shaped (i.e.: elf-like), all-black eyes with shiny pupils... long, pointed (i.e.: elf-like) ears... fingers and toes have talons (instead of nails)... does not have horns... does not have a tail...

Now, as I understand it, in the 2nd edition, Tiefling is no longer an exclusive and distinct race/species, but is now a _modifier_ to one's race/species.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the new rules, so I do not yet understand how I can specifically accomplish what I want: for the 2nd edition version of this character to be both a half-elf and a tiefling at first level.

Any one care to help me figure this out, please? ;-)

Merry Christmas!
Franklin


Play a human with the Tiefling heritage and use your 1st level ancestry feat to take General Training with which you use to take Adopted Ancestry (elf).


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Human is an Ancestry.
Elf is an Ancestry.

Half-elf is a Heritage.
Tiefling is a Heritage.

You choose one Ancestry and then only get one Heritage.

So without houserules, half-elf tiefling is not possible.

What Lucerious recommended would not exactly do the trick. It would get you a human tiefling that could take elf feats that are not in any way dependent on elf physiology, just the ones tied to elf culture.


HammerJack wrote:

Human is an Ancestry. Elf is an Ancestry.

Half-elf is a Heritage. Tiefling is a Heritage.

You choose one Ancestry and then get only one Heritage.

So without house rules, a half-elf tiefling is not possible.

So, we can do an ELVEN tiefling or a HUMAN tiefling, but not a HALF-ELVEN tiefling. Got it. Thanks for the clarification. ;-)


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You could always flavor your character as a half elf tiefling. It just won't be a mechanical thing.

Grand Lodge

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The APG, which introduced versatile heritages, has a sidebar about this.

APG 29 wrote:

MANY ANCESTRIES

Though a character can have only one heritage, it doesn't mean characters with lineages tracing back to multiple ancestries or heritages don't exist. It's certainly possible for a dhampir to be born to a hlaf-elf mother, or for a duskwalker to appear in a community of death warden dwarves. In these cases, the influence of the versatile heritage overshadows the other heritage--the dhampir heritage overshadows the half-elf heritage, and the duskwalker abilities replace those of the death warden dwarf heritage. So while, superficially, a character might bear a resemblance to both heritages, mechanically, they only gain the benefits of the versatile heritage.

Anyway, consider the benefits of Tiefling and Half-elf: Low-light vision. They do exactly the same thing for you.

Of course, both of them also grant you access to additional pools of ancestry feats, but... you only get so many of those, and only one at first level. Were you actually planning on taking feats from both lists? If you weren't, no problem. Pick the one whose feats you want, if either. If you were, you can start Tiefling and pick up Adopted Ancestry (Elf).
Though admittedly that does lock you out of the few specific half-elf feats.


HammerJack wrote:


What Lucerious recommended would not exactly do the trick. It would get you a human tiefling that could take elf feats that are not in any way dependent on elf physiology, just the ones tied to elf culture.

Technically, this is true if playing PFS or with a GM who is very rules strict. However, it does open up ancestry feats from all three- Tiefling, Human, and Elf. This also allows for a GM who at least wants a cost paid to have it. Like Super Zero’s post indicates, one can be both Tiefling and Half-elf, but the Tiefling heritage will overshadow the Half-elf heritage. All one needs to do (especially for a home game) is to say the character is both. Taking Adopted Ancestry then fixes any further issues.

Liberty's Edge

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Note that most Human feats are not dependent on any special physiology. So, playing a Tiefling Elf with Adopted (Human) will give more possibilities than the other way around


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The Raven Black wrote:
Note that most Human feats are not dependent on any special physiology. So, playing a Tiefling Elf with Adopted (Human) will give more possibilities than the other way around

Would also net you darkvision instead of low light which can be significant.


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The Raven Black wrote:
Note that most Human feats are not dependent on any special physiology. So, playing a Tiefling Elf with Adopted (Human) will give more possibilities than the other way around

It was considered, but then Adopted Ancestry would have to wait until level 3 and the OP wanted it all at first level.


I'm mostly just exploring options within the new rules, taking an old text description of a character's appearance as inspiration. The conversations following have been entertaining and enlightening. My thanks! ;-)

FWIW, I had always figured this PC's backstory was "momma was a half-elf, daddy was a monster."

Any way, thanks, and if you have any more ideas about this concept, I'd love to read them.

Merry Christmas, y'all! ^_^
Franklin

Liberty's Edge

Of note are the Lineage feats : Ancestry feats that you can take only at 1st level and that are linked to the kind of outsider whose touch you bear. So different kinds of fiends for a Tiefling.

You do not have to take a Lineage feat at 1st level, but I do not know if you can retrain in one later on.

Grand Lodge

Unless they want the feat at first level, that makes no difference.


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The Raven Black wrote:
You do not have to take a Lineage feat at 1st level, but I do not know if you can retrain in one later on.

"You can have only one lineage feat; you can select such a feat only at 1st level, and you can’t retrain into or out of this feat."

Liberty's Edge

Errenor wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
You do not have to take a Lineage feat at 1st level, but I do not know if you can retrain in one later on.
"You can have only one lineage feat; you can select such a feat only at 1st level, and you can’t retrain into or out of this feat."

Indeed.

So, a Tiefling's Lineage feat competes with Form of the Fiend, the feat that gives you claws.

Actually, most 1st level Tiefling feats are of the only at 1st level, cannot be retrained category.

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