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Hello!
So recently someone asked me if they were able to Ready action Flurry of Blows. I did some searching and I think the answer is yes. Anyway, that led to a discussion about if we can Ready spells. That led me to wondering if I have been playing my summoner character incorrectly with Act Together. Here's the relevant text (emphasis mine):
Ready: "You prepare to use an action that will occur outside your turn. Choose a single action or free action you can use, and designate a trigger. Your turn then ends. If the trigger you designated occurs before the start of your next turn, you can use the chosen action as a reaction (provided you still meet the requirements to use it). You can’t Ready a free action that already has a trigger."
Act Together: "You and your eidolon act as one. Either you or your eidolon takes an action or activity using the same number of actions as Act Together, and the other takes a single action. For example, if you spent 2 actions to Act Together, you could cast burning hands (2 actions) and your eidolon could Strike (1 action), or your eidolon could use its Breath Weapon (2 actions) and you could Stride (1 action)."
Activities: "An activity typically involves using multiple actions to create an effect greater than you can produce with a single action, or combining multiple single actions to produce an effect that’s different from merely the sum of those actions. In some cases, usually when spellcasting, an activity can consist of only 1 action, 1 reaction, or even 1 free action."
Cast a Spell: "Casting a Spell is a special activity that takes a variable number of actions depending on the spell, as listed in each spell's stat block. As soon as the spellcasting actions are complete, the spell effect occurs. Some spells are cast as a reaction or free action. In those cases, you Cast the Spell as a reaction or free action (as appropriate) instead of as an activity. Such cases will be noted in the spell's stat block—for example, “Reaction, verbal.” "
So it seems like "activity" and "actions" are exclusive terms and not interchangeable. If so, then it would seem that you cannot Ready a 1-action spell because Casting a Spell is an "activity," not an "action." And Ready specifies "a single action." Likewise, in Act Together, it seems as if, for example, your dragon eidolon uses its 2-action Breath Weapon activity, the summoner would not be able to cast the 1-action Boost Eidolon spell because Act Together specifies that "the other takes a single action," and excludes activities.
Am I reading and interpreting this all correctly? It's been nagging at me if they are intended to be distinct, RAW, and if that prevents the Readying of spells and such that I mentioned above. I'm also curious to know how people play it at their own tables and if it's something that's handwaved, or if it's OP to handwave it, etc.
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The term activities is used kind of haphazardly throughout the rules, which can make things a little confusing, but I'm not seeing the hard limitation you're seeing.
The Shield spell is both an activity (Cast A Spell) and a single action, nothing precludes you from using it in any situation you could use any single action, because it is one.
Abilities that limit the type of action you can take tend to spell it out specifically, like how Haste puts a limit on what you can do with the bonus action you get from it.
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I've also been worrying that I'm overthinking it and seeing a distinction where there isn't one lol. That's why I decided to post in the forums about it. I'm hoping the matter can be put to rest and I can stop wrestling with it.
I'm not sure if it's intended to be a limitation or not. Things like Act Together gave me the concern because both "activity" and "action" are used seemingly very specifically. With Shield, it's a spell that must be Cast. Casting a spell is an activity, whether it is one action or more actions.
My confusion basically comes from that. Does a single-action spell get disqualified from things like Ready and Act Together because it is an "Activity", not an action, OR, are single-action spells both an "Activity" and "single actions" for the purposes of Ready and such?
It's kind of that "all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares" thing maybe...
I am trying to think of it metaphorically.
If Activities are like potions, Actions are the ingredients.
A potion might only have 1 ingredient (let's say rose hips), but it's still a potion.
My concern is that if a different potion recipe also calls for rose hips, the earlier potion isn't possible to use because it's a "potion-made-from-rose-hips," and no longer simply "rose hips."
The more I try to explain it, the more I start to feel crazy though haha X-D
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With Shield, it's a spell that must be Cast. Casting a spell is an activity, whether it is one action or more actions.
But how many actions are you using to cast it? One. A single action.
everything that costs 1 action is a "single action"
Yes, something that costs a single action costs a single action. By definition. There's nothing in the text that prevents you from readying Shield, or any other one-action ability. The only exception, as spelled out in Ready, is that you can't Ready a free action with a trigger.
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Hello!
So recently someone asked me if they were able to Ready action Flurry of Blows. I did some searching and I think the answer is yes. Anyway, that led to a discussion about if we can Ready spells.
Yeah, I don't have a problem letting people Ready activities as long as it still only costs one action to do them.
It is a bit questionable to allow it to combine with Quicken Spell metamagic. Technically you are using a free action and two standard actions - but the final action cost is one action.
I'm also not entirely sure about targeting rules for spells. Could I Ready the casting of Needle of Vengeance with a trigger of 'that enemy attacks any ally' and then choose that ally as the secondary target of Needle of Vengeance?
But things like Flurry of Blows, Twin Takedown, Risky Reload and other such things should be just fine.
That led me to wondering if I have been playing my summoner character incorrectly with Act Together.
Act Together: "You and your eidolon act as one.
Umm... Yeah. Maybe not any of the Summoner's Tandem actions... That seems a bit too strong.
The tandem action ability doesn’t give an additional reaction. Both the eidolon and summoner would still each need a reaction to both strike in tandem or similar.
The tandem action ability doesn’t give an additional reaction. Both the eidolon and summoner would still each need a reaction to both strike in tandem or similar.
The way that it is being suggested, they wouldn't both need to use a reaction.
Ready allows you to select a single action. For example Tandem Movement. Then specify a trigger. Such as 'the trap triggers'.
So if the Summoner uses Ready to perpare Tandem Movement, then only the Summoner needs to use the reaction to cause the action to happen. Tandem Movement then - all by itself - lets both the Summoner and the Eidolon use a subordinate action to Stride.
If you only allow simple single actions in Ready, then there is no problem - but you can't do things like Ready a Flurry of Blows or the Shield spell.
If you do allow single action activities such as Flurry of Blows and one action cost spells, then I don't see anything in the rules that actually prevents using Ready on Tandem Movement or Act Together (as long as the total action cost of Act Together is one action).
So it seems like "activity" and "actions" are exclusive terms and not interchangeable.Eh, not really.
There are four types of actions: single actions, activities, reactions, and free actions.A single action is different from an activity, but they're both actions.
Single actions can be completed in a very short time. They’re self-contained, and their effects are generated within the span of that single action.Activities usually take longer and require using multiple actions, which must be spent in succession.plus the quote you have.
Flurry is an Activity, so it seems you can't use it with Ready. Which is interesting. This would make the issue of stunning things on their turn basically irrelevant.
This helped me clarify some things. My confusion of "actions" and "activities" is more specifically about "single actions" and "activities." Boiling down to: is an activity that uses 1 action an activity *only*, or is it also a "single action"?
Both Ready and Act Together call for "single actions." So 1) if an activity is NOT a "single action," we can't use Flurry of Blows, Shield, Tandem Movement, Boost Eidolon, Doctor's Visitation, etc. 2) If activities are ALSO "single actions" if they use 1 action, then we can Ready and Act Together with those things (and more).
Situation 2 is obviously the more flexible and powerful. And doubtless more fun. And nobody has to worry about which 1 action things are activities vs single actions. As a player and GM, I know which I would pick. But what has been irking me is I don't know if that is what is intended RAW lol
As for stunning things on their turn...I guess that also comes down to which ruling you play with. But Stunned doesn't kick in until a creature regains actions at the start of their turn (unless there are creatures that have ways of getting turns back during their turn). So stunning a creature on their turn isn't as useful as stunning them before their turn, I think? If a Monk can Ready Flurry of Blows, hits twice, and uses Stunning Fist, I think they can Stun a creature during its turn, but the creature doesn't lose any actions on the spot. It'd lose them at the start of its next turn.
It's simple. A single action is a (one) single action which costs 1 action
Activities are: multiple actions bundled together as one action (Flurry is here), actions which cost 2-3 actions, actions which take longer than one round, and Cast a Spell is always an activity no matter its action cost except when it's cast as a reaction or free action
** spoiler omitted **
hmm yeah i see now the part you're referring to. Kind of a can of worms there. It certainly simplifies things if you simply can't flurry as a readied action.
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There are a couple of threads lurking around trying to figure out the mechanics of “action” and “activity” and the overall consensus is, as Squiggit pointed out, that the rules language is not generally consistent enough to try to set up a hard boundary between action and activities like the OP is trying for. Which is unfortunate in my mind, but the rabbit hole of trying to do so has to overcome many places where activities are referred to as “actions.” PF2 was definitely not written as computer code, but as a conversation between designers and players (and players and GM).
In the rules actions can be nested in activities, activities can be nested in both other activities and other actions, and you really have to look at the specific language of the ability for guidance, and probably talk it over with your table about what feels most fair for your game, remembering that both sides can do it.
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Yeah the language in the CRB is very imprecise, "activity" seems to be just a sort of vague plural of action. It's not built out to be a hard separate thing that's easily distinguishable.
Consider that the Basic Actions contain:
- reactions (Grab an Edge, Aid)
- two-action "basic actions" like Ready
- free actions (Release)
So trying to pin down "actions" on being exactly single actions fails, because that would mean that not all basic actions are actions. At which point sanity has left the building.
The skills chapter also talks about "skill actions", some of which have subordinate actions, like Long Jump which contains a subordinate Stride and Leap. So we also can't draw a hard line here and say that only activities can have subordinate actions.
And also, plenty of things labeled activities don't have subordinate actions, such as Scout.
Earn Income is grouped under "general skill actions" in chapter 4 but called an activity in chapter 9,
I also haven't run across any kind of rule saying "you can use X with actions but not activities".
So my conclusion is that there just isn't a hard separation between them and "activity" is just an informal way to indicate that an action is a bit more involved, somehow.
So, yeah, readying a Flurry of Blows is legit.