The major curse of the bones mystery makes you wounded 1 and the extreme curse makes you doomed 2. This means you die when you hit 0 HP since doomed 2 makes you die at dying 2 and wounded 1 brings you to dying 2 at minimum. However, with the Regenerate spell, your dying value can't increase to a value that would kill.
Now my question is, does this count as violating that curse feature that prevents you from ignoring your curse? In this case, the major curse wounded condition?
This specific scenario almost happened the other day when I cast Regenerate on our bones oracle who was at critical HP and extreme cursed. Thankfully, we were able to end the fight before she actually went down, but I wonder if this was even legitimate play if she did.
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That would be fine, as it is not modifying the curse in any way. You would still be Wounded 1 and Doomed 2, you just wouldn't die when you go to 0 HP, which isn't something that the curse says would happen.
If the curse said "you instantly die when you hit 0 HP" however, Regenerate would do nothing.
Also, they really should get Diehard, so they die at 5 rather than 4.
That's not as clear cut as Cordell says it. Depending on the GM, you will have different interpretations. Some will consider that what can't be mitigated is the very precise manifestation of the curse, so in that case anything that would prevent you from being Wounded or Doomed, when others will consider that preventing the curse to have any actual effect is mitigating the curse, so in that case anything that would make Wounded or Doomed irrelevant is mitigating the curse.
I encourage you to check with your GM, as they're definitely the best person to ask.
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Of course. Because the game is perfectly balanced and playable for a front line Battle Oracle to get no benefit from anything that raises their AC - armor, cover, shields, Forbidding Ward, unarmored proficiency, etc. They should be just fine with an AC of 8 for the entire game before they can make their first Strike of each combat.[/sarcasm]
Cordell has the right of it. Though you should do as SuperBidi mentions and check with the GM.
Of course. Because the game is perfectly balanced and playable for a front line Battle Oracle to get no benefit from anything that raises their AC - armor, cover, shields, Forbidding Ward, unarmored proficiency, etc. They should be just fine with an AC of 8 for the entire game before they can make their first Strike of each combat.[/sarcasm]
It sounds like an argument against what I said despite being entirely unrelated.
Cordell has the right of it.
In the case of the Tempest Oracle for example, a lot of GMs will forbid Lightning Immunity as it would entirely negate the curse. So, I don't think Cordell is that right. It's very GM dependent. Stating that there's only one interpretation is disingenuous.
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In this case of Wounded 1 and Doomed 2, there is nothing that is reducing or counteracting either of those conditions at all. Anyone, Oracle or not, that has Wounded 1 and Doomed 2 who drops to 0 HP will die immediately. Unless they have Regenerate condition also. But not because Regenerate is reducing or limiting the effects of Wounded or Doomed.
Yes, negating the effect of the curse entirely so that it has no effect at all would not be allowed. So lightning immunity on a Tempest Oracle probably shouldn't be allowed. But lightning resistance probably should. The lightning weakness still has its full effect. Just like Armor on a Battle Oracle should have its effect, since it doesn't remove or reduce the -2 AC penalty that is being imposed by the curse. It is an additional and separate effect.
Just like Regenerate is a separate effect from Wounded and Doomed.
Thanks for the responses and examples.
I think I was taking way too many extra steps to justify an effect opposing another effect anyway. Now I see it's the wrong approach since otherwise, I bet I can justify just about anything as opposing any curse's effects in someway and just make nothing work at all. That doesn't seem right.
Anyway, I'm sure to suggest Diehard to our Oracle next session, or at least to also keep the Regenerate spell handy.
In this case of Wounded 1 and Doomed 2, there is nothing that is reducing or counteracting either of those conditions at all. Anyone, Oracle or not, that has Wounded 1 and Doomed 2 who drops to 0 HP will die immediately. Unless they have Regenerate condition also. But not because Regenerate is reducing or limiting the effects of Wounded or Doomed.
Yes, negating the effect of the curse entirely so that it has no effect at all would not be allowed. So lightning immunity on a Tempest Oracle probably shouldn't be allowed. But lightning resistance probably should. The lightning weakness still has its full effect. Just like Armor on a Battle Oracle should have its effect, since it doesn't remove or reduce the -2 AC penalty that is being imposed by the curse. It is an additional and separate effect.
That doesn't make sense.
Lightning Immunity doesn't affect Weakness, it makes it moot.Regenerate doesn't affect Wounded and Doomed, it makes it moot.
Both cases are very similar. Anyway, you can apply this ruling, as much as a GM can forbid Regenerate, both are RAW. Mitigate is not defined in the game and as such can be read a bit of however one wants.
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I tend to agree with those who suggest that this spell would NOT save you from death in such a circumstance based largely on the point that mitigation of the curse is indeed quite vague but still does a fair job of communicating that you are NEVER supposed to be able to simply sidestep the consequences of the penalties and conditions imposed by said curse.
Allowing Regenerate to heal you and restore limbs is totally a-okay but in terms of preventing you from ever even gaining Dying 1 (which in my view IS different than increasing your Dying value but that's another bag to unpack) I do not think this is intended to work since the whole flavor of this thing is that you're figuratively at death's door even while standing to fight and you're not supposed to be able to just fudge your way around those consequences with a strange corner-case ruling based on vague language.
However your GM rules it, keep in mind that the mitigation clause goes both ways. As in, both negative and positive effects can't be negated, removed, etc. For our group, it's the best way to check if an effect mitigating a curse is too good or too bad to be true since we have both sides to equally consider. Since the ruling should be applied consistently across the board, it works out for both the players and the GM.
This has lead to us to only disallowing direct mitigation, similar to the book's given example on the Flame's concealed curse vs True Strike. Stat bonuses/penalties and similar contrary effects are all allowed to coexist since they are indirect mitigation. This avoids crazy game-breaking scenarios like the AC penalty mitigation breithauptclan pointed out above or damage over time effects counting as mitigation for your Fast Healing.