Simple Rule Change for Casting Spells in Wild Shape

[Blackmill]

Add the following lines to Wild Shape:

Quote:

You may cast spells while in wild shape, even when in a battle form. However, you are stupefied 2 while in wild shape, and this condition cannot be removed by any means except by returning to your normal form. If you are immune to the stupefied condition, you cannot use wild shape. This does not allow you to cast spells with verbal components while in forms that lack speech. Similarly, you cannot cast spells with material or somatic components in forms that are incapable of performing manipulate actions.

Additionally, add the following line to Dragon Shape:

Quote:

While using wild shape to polymorph into a dragon battle form, you gain the ability to speak.

For reference, the stupefied condition reads

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You take a status penalty equal to this value on Intelligence-, Wisdom-, and Charisma-based checks and DCs, including Will saving throws, spell attack rolls, spell DCs, and skill checks that use these ability scores. Any time you attempt to Cast a Spell while stupefied, the spell is disrupted unless you succeed at a flat check with a DC equal to 5 + your stupefied value.

Essentially, this homebrew allows a druid in dragon form (via wild shape) to take a high risk gamble to cast a spell, and otherwise weakens all forms. I also like this change thematically, since one can interpret the druid failing to cast their spell as them not being able to control their inner beast.

1. What do you think?
2. Is the value for stupefied reasonable?
3. Would it be better to replace the stupefied condition with something less punishing, such as "to cast a spell while in wild shape, you must pass a DC 5 flat check"?

[HammerJack]

That implementation would kind of kick lower level druids in the teeth. They'd be stuck with a result of "I don't have any forms capable of doing both verbal and somatic (which most of my spells are) and now I have a big penalty to Will, Perception and several skills any time I wildshape." It seems fairly uncalled for, as a wildshaped druid who wouldn't be able to cast anyway isn't in need of the nerfbat.

If you want to make it possible to cast in a battle form at high risk, it seems to me like it would be a better fit to make it an option you choose each time, when you go into the form, so that the druids getting the benefit are the only ones taking the downside.

[Blackmill]

Then perhaps it would make sense to place the new mechanics behind a metamagic feat. For instance,

Feat Level: 14
Prerequisites: wild shape
Actions: 1
Description: If your next action is to cast wild shape, you gain the ability to speak while transformed, and the ability to cast spells even in a battle form. However, you also become stupefied 1, and this condition cannot be removed by any means except by returning to your normal form. If you are immune to the stupefied condition, you cannot use wild shape. This does not allow you to cast spells with material or somatic components in forms that are incapable of performing manipulate actions.

[HumbleGamer]

You won't be able to use material components anyway as everything your character has merges with the new form.

25% chances to fail any spell, as well as -1 to all int wish char checks and the cost of a lvl 14 feat, is a pretty low disadvantage compared to the action efficiency and the unique possibility ( we have 1/2 of the classes that can use battleforms. Just giving it to wild shape makes imo not much sense).

Given that Battle form purpose is to allow spellcasters to temporarily trade their ability to cast spells in change of a temporary nice martial build ( better AC, attack, manuvers, temp hp, special stuff, size), trying to give them such stuff ( considering flat checks are also checks which can be explited with hero points) would make things quite imbalanced.

Maybe some lvl 20 feat allowing the druid to cast one single spell per transformation ( at least 3 levels lower than the transformation spell level) could be a thing. Maybe.

[Blackmill]

HumbleGamer wrote:

You won't be able to use material components anyway as everything your character has merges with the new form.

Ah, good catch. I hadn't thought of that.

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25% chances to fail any spell, as well as -1 to all int wish char checks and the cost of a lvl 14 feat, is a pretty low disadvantage compared to the action efficiency and the unique possibility ( we have 1/2 of the classes that can use battleforms. Just giving it to wild shape makes imo not much sense).

I have to disagree with this. A 25% chance to lose a spell slot and waste two actions is huge drawback. Remember that the caster has already wasted a full turn to use the homebrew metamagic (1 action) and wild shape (2 actions). Moreover, this can't be used with form control (also metamagic), which is another meaningful downside.

Compared to level 16+ druid feats, I honestly think this is a pretty bad feat, since it's narrow, unreliable, and has potentially disastrous consequences if the druid rolls poorly. Even low level feats like form control (level 4) probably add more to a shapeshifting druid.

If you're wondering why I would homebrew a feat that I consider bad, it's because it's because I don't mind taking a bad feat, so long as it's not too bad (such as if the stupefied value were 5).

Quote:

Maybe some lvl 20 feat allowing the druid to cast one single spell per transformation ( at least 3 levels lower than the transformation spell level) could be a thing. Maybe.

I think this is fair, but funnily, I also think this is stronger than what I suggested.

[HumbleGamer]

Not saying that a 25% chance lf loosing the spell is not worth it, but that the malus can be avoided by expending a hero point to eventually reroll the check.

Plus, to dismiss a spell is one action.

Let's say that you need to heal a party member beyond 30 feet from you, and that you are currently shape shifted.

Normally you'd need to dismiss the form, stride and heal ( you'll be lacking an action unless quickened), needing to expend 2 action and a focus point to shift back to your form after the heal.

And, in addition to the excellent action management, It's not that you are always going to cast spells while shapeshifted, but when you are going to do so you may benefit from a reroll.

A reroll you are only going to use if you fail the check.

That's why, to me, it's kinda op and the stupified condition doesn't affect the character that much ( because it would result into a shapeshifter meant to fight most of the time and that can "occasionally" Cast one spell per fight).

Ps: the lvl 20 feat would allow you to use the feature by lvl 20 only, and to cast a lvl 7 or lower spell ( by lvl 20 a lvl 7 spell would not be so useful during a combat).