Does negative *damage* heal PC undead?

[ShotgunWaffle]

I'm making a Skeleton Summoner for an upcoming 2E campaign, and my party and I are in disagreement about the effects of negative damage on a pc Skeleton. Traditionally, negative damage heals Undead. Ergo, I was curious if being a PC changes this or if it's different in 2E. Is it all negative damage that heals undead, or only negative effects that stipulate healing undead? My friend brought up positive energy Spirit Barbarian as being a strong healer under those same implications inversed, but I think it's different since Undead have the Undead Trait. Can anyone help clarify?

[The Raven Black]

Negative damage does not heal undead, but negative energy does.

Undead PCs : "You don't take negative damage and are healed by negative effects that heal undead."

Undead NPCs : "Undead creatures are damaged by positive energy, are healed by negative energy, and don't benefit from healing effects."

[Ventnor]

If you cast Disrupt Undead at someone who is alive, it doesn’t heal them even though it deals positive damage. The converse is true with negative damage and undead. If you cast Chill Touch on an undead character, it doesn’t heal them. Only positive healing effects heal living characters, and negative healing effects heal undead characters.

[breithauptclan]

It has been debated back and forth quite a bit, and I don't think this community is fully unified on the ruling.

I am also in the camp of negative and positive damage never doing healing to anyone.

We already have physical damage, and energy damage which are standard in TTRPGs. Bleed damage and Precision damage have some specific rules, but they are also physical damage. Then PF2 also has alignment damage and positive and negative damage.

There is also positive and negative energy that can be used for healing by effects that use them. Several spells have positive healing, such as Heal, Lay on Hands, and Soothe. There are also spells that have negative healing such as Harm and Necromancer's Generosity.

So I agree that a Spirit Instinct Barbarian cannot punch people healthy. And neither can you use Vampiric Touch to both heal your Skeleton character and give temporary HP to the caster ally using it on you.

[Ascalaphus]

It's really simple.

* Damage never heals.
* Healing never damages.
* Some effects do both damage to one type of creature, and healing to another type of creature. Those effects, such as Heal and Harm spells, will say so explicitly.

[Castilliano]

Ascalaphus wrote:

It's really simple.

* Damage never heals.
* Healing never damages.
* Some effects do both damage to one type of creature, and healing to another type of creature. Those effects, such as Heal and Harm spells, will say so explicitly.

Exactly.

The other "camp" is carrying over the meta from 3.X/PF1 (which is understandable as that can represent decades of play!).
PF2's rules on this are clear, and as you laid out.

[The Raven Black]

breithauptclan wrote:

It has been debated back and forth quite a bit, and I don't think this community is fully unified on the ruling.

I am also in the camp of negative and positive damage never doing healing to anyone.

We already have physical damage, and energy damage which are standard in TTRPGs. Bleed damage and Precision damage have some specific rules, but they are also physical damage. Then PF2 also has alignment damage and positive and negative damage.

There is also positive and negative energy that can be used for healing by effects that use them. Several spells have positive healing, such as Heal, Lay on Hands, and Soothe. There are also spells that have negative healing such as Harm and Necromancer's Generosity.

So I agree that a Spirit Instinct Barbarian cannot punch people healthy. And neither can you use Vampiric Touch to both heal your Skeleton character and give temporary HP to the caster ally using it on you.

Just a note that Soothe is healing but not positive.