Agile Shield Grip clarification.

[Vali Nepjarson]

So one of the players in our game is playing an Automaton who duel weilds shields, one with a boss and one with a spike, and then uses the eye lasers if a longer range weapon is needed. It's a cool concept, and he wants to utilize Agile Shield Grip feat from LO: Knights of Lastwall.

But there is some uncertainty about exactly how this feat can be used.

Can our PC walk around with one of his shields already in the agile grip, or does he have to have his shield in a normal grip until combat starts and then use the action to assume the grip? And if you were to, say, drop the shield, can you pick it up on the agile grip?

My assumptions are, yes to the first question, and no to the second, but that is based on game mechanics, while logically it makes more sense for the answer to be yes to the second.

The feat basically makes shields act like weapons that can be wielded in either one or two hands, where you can shift between the two states at any time and if you are holding it, it can be held either way, even outside of combat. However the feat doesn't say you can draw a shield in the agile grip, just that you are holding the shield you can use an action to transition into the grip.

I am not actually GMing this game, but the person who is is a first time GM so I'm acting as a sort of consultant and they wanted my opinion on this, but I am honestly not sure.

[HumbleGamer]

Vali Nepjarson wrote:

The feat basically makes shields act like weapons that can be wielded in either one or two hands, where you can shift between the two states at any time and if you are holding it, it can be held either way, even outside of combat. However the feat doesn't say you can draw a shield in the agile grip, just that you are holding the shield you can use an action to transition into the grip.

I am not quite sure about the hands.

It's just like for daggers held with normal or reverse grip ( you can just switch the grip with the hand you are wielding the weapon ).

When it comes down to the number of hands, 2e explicitly points it out ( here's the everstand stance description ).

Quote:

You brace your shield with both hands, enhancing its potential for both offense and defense.

When in this stance, you wield the shield with both hands. When wielding a shield this way, increase the weapon damage die of the shield’s boss or spikes by one step, and increase the shield’s Hardness by 2 when using the Shield Block reaction.

Also, the fact it states that you are required to wield the shield in one hand, prevents agile shield from being used with everstand stance, for example ( which requires 2 hands on the shield ).

It's just a trade off in terms of damage die, requiring an interact action to switch between the 2 options.

[Vali Nepjarson]

HumbleGamer wrote:

I am not quite sure about the hands.

It's just like for daggers held with normal or reverse grip ( you can just switch the grip with the hand you are wielding the weapon ).

No no, I'm sorry you misunderstand my question. I know you don't wield the shield in two-hands. I only meant to compare it to weapons like the Bastard Sword in the sense that there are two different ways to use the shield (when you have the feat) and you use an action to switch between the two.

My only questions are

1) Can you carry the shield around with the agile grip while not in combat, or does it assume you default to the regular grip when not in combat?

And

2) When you pick up or equip your shield, can you pick it up with agile grip already activated, or do you need to use one action to equip the shield and then a second to shift to agile grip?

The only reason I brought up the 1 or 2-handed weapon thing is as a comparison for the second question, since if, for example, you draw your Bastard Sword, you can chose when you do so to be wielding it in either mode.

[Xethik]

With the writing of the feat - one that is an action rather than a passive that mentions spending an action to toggle - it seems that Agile Shield Grip is more than just a basic way of wielding a shield.
It has no duration, however. So it seems fine to apply the action as soon as you equip the shield out of combat. It would seem most appropriate to apply the modification only until you drop/unequip the shield so you would have to use it again if swapping shields or if you otherwise dropped it.

[xcmt]

Quote:

1) Can you carry the shield around with the agile grip while not in combat, or does it assume you default to the regular grip when not in combat?

I'd say "grips" are fine to maintain outside of combat, similar to how you can maintain a 1- vs 2-handed grip on a Two Hand trait weapon. There's no language saying you have to reset grips to a base state during Exploration mode like for Stances.

Quote:

2) When you pick up or equip your shield, can you pick it up with agile grip already activated, or do you need to use one action to equip the shield and then a second to shift to agile grip?

The action cost, for me, implies that you have to equip normally first and then shift into the agile grip. It's a modal thing you have to actively swap into.

[breithauptclan]

1) Yes, I would allow holding the shield in Agile Grip while not in combat. I don't see any reason why that wouldn't be allowed.

2) I wouldn't make it cost extra actions to draw or pick up the shield and have it be in Agile Grip already. Action taxes aren't any more fun than Feat taxes.