Weapon and Armor proficiency archetype stacking


Rules Questions


Has there been any FAQ about archetype stacking when replacing Weapon proficiency and Armor proficiency separately? One could argue that they are subfeatures of a classes Weapon and Armor proficiency and therefore should be able to be replaced be different archetypes.
I want to stack the Gunslingers Gun tank and Pistolero archetypes and this is the one thing that might break it.


I've always thought of weapon and armour proficiencies as separate from one another, but I guess I don't really have anything to back that up. Good question.

Liberty's Edge

Highpiest wrote:
Has there been any FAQ about archetype stacking when replacing Weapon proficiency and Armor proficiency separately?

When an archetype touches a class feature, you can tache another archetype that touches that class feature. The class feature is: "Weapon and Armor Proficiency".

FAQ wrote:

Archetype Stacking and Altering: What exactly counts as altering a class feature for the purpose of stacking archetypes?

In general, if a class feature grants multiple subfeatures, it’s OK to take two archetypes that only change two separate subfeatures. This includes two bard archetypes that alter or replace different bardic performances (even though bardic performance is technically a single class feature) or two fighter archetypes that replace the weapon training gained at different levels (sometimes referred to as “weapon training I, II, III, or IV”) even though those all fall under the class feature weapon training. However, if something alters the way the parent class feature works, such as a mime archetype that makes all bardic performances completely silent, with only visual components instead of auditory, you can’t take that archetype with an archetype that alters or replaces any of the sub-features. This even applies for something as small as adding 1 extra round of bardic performance each day, adding an additional bonus feat to the list of bonus feats you can select, or adding an additional class skill to the class. As always, individual GMs should feel free to houserule to allow small overlaps on a case by case basis, but the underlying rule exists due to the unpredictability of combining these changes.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency doesn't have subfeatures, there aren't any subfeature in italics.


Diego Rossi wrote:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency doesn't have subfeatures, there aren't any subfeature in italics.

I disagree with you there… and honestly so does the FAQ you quoted… it calls out the example of Armor Training I, II, III, and IV as being seprarate sub features of the Armor Training class feature. Armor training doesn’t have any italicized text defining it to have ai features, but the FAQ clearly says that it does. It is pretty clear that a sub feature is any part of a class feature that could be considered it’s own separate element. In the case of weapon and armor proficiency it is quite obvious that weapon proficiency and armor proficiency are in-fact two separate sub features.


Both archetypes list specifically what they are altering. Gun tank lists it as armor proficiency, where pistolero list it as weapon proficiency. Virtuous bravo’s description lists it under weapon and armor proficiency, but specifically calls out it is altering the paladin’s armor proficiency. This pattern is followed in other archetypes that modify only weapon or armor proficiencies. This makes it pretty clear they are separate sub features of the class feature.

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