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Hi Brian,
unfortunately, I think I found another glitch in VAT processing.
Luckily, this time has nothing to do with shipments, it is about orders that only contain digital goods (in my case, PDFs).
If you need an example, you can look up order 36996350.
In the order process, VAT is calculated and it is also billed (you might see the PDF costs 27,99$, but payments are 29,95$).
But the order states the following:
VAT has not been charged.
No sales tax was charged because all items are exempt or the purchaser is exempt.
VAT rate at destination: 19.00%
Net VAT due to Paizo: $0.00
So, only one of these can be true - either there's no VAT on this order (in this case, Paizo billed me to many dollars), or the statement at the order page is wrong (and Paizo should check that it this error does not mean the collected VAT stays with Paizo).
Can you please look into that?
Thanks!
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Hi Brian,
I can confirm what Eledriel said. Living in Germany I received the July shipment directly to my place. First shipment this year without extra costs!
Thank you for looking into this matter and your improvements to the process!
Unfortunately, I spoke too soon. Recently, I got import tax invoices from UPS for both the July and August shipment.
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Hello Brian,
and no answer on that again for more than two weeks.
Regarding on how Paizo currently acts against their customers, I have to suspect now Paizo is keeping money for itself that is expected to be paid as taxes.
I now ask proof that Paizo forwards taxes really to the tax authorities, otherwise I am contacting the tax authorities myself to raise this issue with them.
Sorry to have to be that straightforward at the moment, but how Paizo acts at the moment overall is just burning all trust.
Thanks
I had to pay import taxes again on this month's shipment.
Software Architect
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Hello, all,
My apologies for my late return to this thread.
Eledriel,
I believe what you are experiencing is a bug on the customer order display page. From looking at your order information directly, our records state that we did charge you tax on that order, and said tax will be remitted as appropriate. We currently have a bug fix working its way through the system, which I expect will be released either this week or next.
I have forwarded your additional request up the chain.
Is anyone besides Zaister still being charged by their local customs office? The number of positive posts following the filing changes in early August, as well as the significant drop-off in subsequent posting, suggests that those changes resolved the vast majority of issues across multiple countries.
Zaister, I will of course continue looking for whatever might be causing your continued troubles, but it may be more difficult to determine without others experiencing the same issue.
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Zaister, I will of course continue looking for whatever might be causing your continued troubles, but it may be more difficult to determine without others experiencing the same issue.
It may be interesting to note that I am getting my shipments with UPS, and that it's UPS who does the tax calculations and requests the tax payment, not the customs office.
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For what it's worth, I got the last two subscription packages with no problem, and without being required by the Belgian customs to pay any extra taxes. I am now waiting for the September package to arrive, hopefully with no problem either.
Sorry to see that Eledriel and Zaister still have troubles with their packages though. Crossing my fingers for those to be fixed quickly.
Thank you for your continued efforts, Brian, and for communicating and actually doing something about this problem. I got a mail from someone else more or less taking the credit for the fix, but the exchanges on this thread make me think that you are the one who got things moving.
Well, I just checked my August Society order (#37021454) and am experiencing the same issue as Eledriel is:
Order Total of $14.37
Payment of $15.81
On the bank-statements its $15.81 = €16.00 (+ €0.16 exchange costs)
This is also on my July Society sub (#36980264), but not on my July extra order (#36700175). My June Society sub (#36948440), May (#36920582), April (#36876110), March and Febuary Society subs all show the same signs, only the January one (#36776658) is listed a bit different, with a line "Estimated Sales Tax" added in.
I hope Paizo can find those additionally charged taxes for purely digital (international?) orders automatically and refund all affected customers without every one of us having to come in here on our own.
I don't order physically any more, so I can't tell if Zaister is the only one affected.
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Hello,
I am a bit puzzled with the VAT processing
In August my order incorporated VAT and my package was deliverred in 20 days.
I thus decided to get subscriptions and since then, all my order doesn't take VAT into account.
Hopefully, Paizo is refunding custom and VAT charges, but it end-up in having a delivery time of 40 days instead of 20 days.
I also understand that VAT is indeed taken into account for some customers and not for others... Is there a way to fix this (i.e. a tag in our account) ?
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Software Architect
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Hello, all - I very much appreciate the level of detail folks who are still having issues have gone into recently describing what you're experiencing. With a much smaller pool of affected individuals, finding the common link is much trickier. My apologies if anyone has felt ignored; we definitely still have this on our radar, but are still gathering information and trying to collate it into a viable theory for what's still going wrong.
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Software Architect
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After looking through a lot of orders of folks in this thread, I have some additional findings that may be of interest.
The changes in VAT collection regulations over the past year and a half require us to handle orders with a value greater than 150 Euro differently than orders with a lesser value. For orders under 150 Euros, we are able to assess, collect and remit the VAT directly, and such orders should clear customs quickly and arrive with no additional effort on your part. This scenario wasn't working properly prior to August, as one of our carriers wasn't forwarding the proper documentation to international customs offices, which caused packages to be held and customers to have to pay double VAT. We believe this issue is resolved.
Orders that cost more than 150 euros cannot be handled in this way. The standard behavior for these shipments is for us to *not* assess, charge, or remit any VAT on such orders. Instead, the customer is considered the importer of record, and must pay any relevant VAT and duty charges themselves. There is not a workable option at this time for Paizo to handle the VAT on such orders ourselves.
From looking over a multitude of orders from various people on this thread, I suspect this is the predominant source of variance between purchases/subscriptions and between the experiences of customers who are still encountering issues and customers who are not. People with multiple subscriptions are more likely to have larger subscription orders that exceed the 150 Euro threshold, don't get charged tax, and get held by their local customs for import and payment of VAT and other duties. People who are making discrete purchases are more likely falling below the threshold and having us charge and handle their VAT.
Hopefully, folks will find that their order histories make more sense and seem more consistent in light of the expected behaviors I outlined above. If not, please let me know, either in thread, PMed, or emailed as you are comfortable, so we can look into your issue further.
Thank you Brian,
It makes sens in understanding why taxes were collected with some order and not with others.
I won't say I am happy with the answers, as it impacts negatively customers that make bigger orders, and customers with a collection of Pathfinder and starfinder collections. The most annoying issue is that our parcels are delivered in 40 days instead of 20 days (This is what I experienced with the last order). But I can tell you that I had to monitor the parcel on a daily basis to ensure that our post office kept on not forgetting the parcel. All these are quiete frustrating and somehow ruining my customer experience.
Could you clarify for orders over 150$ if Paizo will refund VAT and taxes like they did before ?
Have a good day !!
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Software Architect
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Hello, Mr. Fred,
I definitely empathize with your position. We certainly don't want our customers to have to jump through more hoops simply because they made a larger purchase. Unfortunately, we don't currently have any other viable means of complying with the law.
If the three weeks a package is stuck in customs can be reduced by our filing more or better documentation when we ship orders to Europe, we definitely want to look into that further. If, however, that time period is simply how long it takes the receiving customs office to go through incoming packages and identify and contact the recipients to pay the VAT and duties, then Paizo likely can't do much to shorten your wait.
In short, we'd like to do as much as we can to make the process as pain-free as possible, but ultimately a significant part of it is out of our control.
Regarding reimbursements: Paizo is reimbursing our customers for additional local VAT and duties charges for packages for which Paizo has already collected and remitted VAT. This is to prevent our customers from having to pay the same VAT twice. If we *didn't* charge you VAT, because the order cost more than 150€, then no double-charging for VAT has occurred, and there's nothing that needs to be reimbursed.
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I'm also from Belgium and had the exact same problem with my latest order (Bestiary Pawn Box). When I contacted the post office they told me "I had to pay VAT to them since they had not received the IOSS number digitally".
That's 38 euros. VAT has cost me more than the actual product thus far.
The advice I got from the post office? Contact the seller.
I'm also from Belgium and had the exact same problem with my latest order (Bestiary Pawn Box). When I contacted the post office they told me "I had to pay VAT to them since they had not received the IOSS number digitally".
That's 38 euros. VAT has cost me more than the actual product thus far.
The advice I got from the post office? Contact the seller.
To be fair it was 20 euros. I contacted paizo support and we agreed to have the number returned in store credits for future digital purposes. I am quite satisfied with Paizo customer support thus far!
This is still an issue, and it appears the French post office is no longer willing to accommodate missing paperwork:
Vous devriez contacter votre expéditeur pour le remboursement, car celui-ci n'a pas fait le nécessaire au niveau de la saisie pour nous indiquer le paiement IOSS (tva importation).
You should contact your sender for the refund, as they did not take the necessary steps at the time of entry to indicate the IOSS (import VAT) payment.
I have contacted Paizo customer service, but I expect it would be a smoother experience for everybody if this issue was finally ironed out – the import regulations and IOSS were put in place on July 1st, 2021, after all…
Seems like France is like all governments: "gimme my money!"
"Don't steal. The government doesn't like competition." -- Unknown
Hi!
Unearthing this thread to mention that I had two recent subscription packages for which I had to pay additional taxes (March 2024 and July 2024), so the old problem might be back again (from what I have been told, "the IOSS number on the package was not known in their ITMATT system or missing").
I kept the invoices in case the policy mentioned by Brian above is still applicable (Paizo reimbursing the additional charges for packages for which Paizo has already collected VAT) - it would be nice to know if it is still the case.
With the increases in shipping fees those past years, those extra costs really make it hard to justify keeping the subscriptions for EU-based clients, even if I would rather make sure that the money goes directly to Paizo instead of other sellers, so I hope that this can be fixed quickly.
Thanks in advance!
I haven't had a single package for which I didn't have to pay "Einfuhrumsatzsteuer", i.e. import VAT.
I have got the same problems with two of my last shipments.
It seems that US-Post glues their label over the Paizo label so the relevant information is no lange visisble