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I love the flavor of the Harvest Parts feat. Bit I'm a little unsure exactly how much the maximum discount on an item crafted with harvested parts is.
Benefit(s): You can attempt a Craft or Heal check, as though making a trophy, to gain usable resources from a creature that has been dead for less than an hour. Only creatures with a CR of 1 or higher yield usable parts. The value of the parts you harvest is equal to the creature’s CR squared × 10 gp (increases to CR derived from class levels or templates do not contribute to this value). This value can be used only as raw materials for crafting alchemical, masterwork, mundane, or magic items. Items crafted using creature parts must be made of a suitable material—typically bone or hide, with metal only in extraordinary cases. No more than a quarter of a crafted item’s cost can be supplied with harvested parts. Harvested parts remain usable for 2 days before they rot (unless used to craft objects or somehow preserved). Creature parts that are harvested in this manner can’t be bought or sold in most settlements.
Bolded part is where my question is.
Is the "items cost" referring to the items normal market cost, or does it refer to the raw materials cost?
So say I'm crafting a +1 cloak of resistance, 1000gp market value, for 500gp of raw materials. If I use harvested parts to supplement it, can I use up to 250gp of harvested parts (1/4 market value) or only 125gp of harvested parts (1/4 raw materials)?
Price is the total amount of currency needed to purchase a complete item. Cost is half the price of a complete item and is only spent when crafting. Given that the feat mentions that you can only use it for a quarter of the cost when crafting then it seems pretty self explanatory to me.
I don't understand the purpose of this feat, it gives you the ability to do something you can already do as part of the normal trophy rules but now it adds the limitation that you can't use it for all of the material costs.
I don't understand the purpose of this feat, it gives you the ability to do something you can already do as part of the normal trophy rules but now it adds the limitation that you can't use it for all of the material costs.
It saves you 25% of the cost in raw materials. In OP's example the cost is 500gp.
Without the feat you pay 500gp then begin crafting.
With the feat you can use 125GP in harvested parts and only pay 375gp.
The amount saved becomes much more noticeable the higher the cost of the item obviously but that's how it works.
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Price is the total amount of currency needed to purchase a complete item. Cost is half the price of a complete item and is only spent when crafting. Given that the feat mentions that you can only use it for a quarter of the cost when crafting then it seems pretty self explanatory to me.
That makes a lot of sense, thank you!
Are those two things formally defined anywhere, or is that mostly coming from context in the way Paizo material uses those two words?
Price is the total amount of currency needed to purchase a complete item. Cost is half the price of a complete item and is only spent when crafting. Given that the feat mentions that you can only use it for a quarter of the cost when crafting then it seems pretty self explanatory to me.That makes a lot of sense, thank you!
Are those two things formally defined anywhere, or is that mostly coming from context in the way Paizo material uses those two words?
Both are defined in Item Creation.
Price is the market value of an item, and cost is how much you pay to craft the item.
I don't understand the purpose of this feat, it gives you the ability to do something you can already do as part of the normal trophy rules but now it adds the limitation that you can't use it for all of the material costs.It saves you 25% of the cost in raw materials. In OP's example the cost is 500gp.
Without the feat you pay 500gp then begin crafting.
With the feat you can use 125GP in harvested parts and only pay 375gp.
The amount saved becomes much more noticeable the higher the cost of the item obviously but that's how it works.
You can already make trophies that are useful for (magic) item crafting. In fact, the normal rules allow you to use a trophy for a 20% bonus value if you use it for its affinity for making a magic item.
Magical Affinities of Trophies
Certain creatures provide trophy components that, once processed into actual trophies, are exceptionally useful for the construction of alchemical or magic items. When used as raw materials for the crafting of alchemical or magic items, these trophies are worth more than their normal values for the purposes of calculating the total gp needed to craft the item.The following section details trophy uses for a wide range of creature categories. This list is not intended to be exhaustive, and GMs should feel free to add specific affinities to a creature as their campaigns demand.
Recovery: In order to preserve trophy components into a trophy usable for its magical affinities, a character must use a different skill than Craft to create the trophy. The specific skill required varies according to the creature, as detailed below. Creating a trophy to be used in this way is more difficult than creating one to simply be an art object: the DC to create a magical affinity trophy is equal to 20 + the creature’s CR. If a creature’s trophy components fall into multiple categories (such as an erinyes), the character can choose which of the associated skills to use to craft the trophy.
Affinities: The magical uses for a trophy in the construction of alchemical or magic items are listed here. When a trophy is incorporated into raw materials, its gp value is considered to be 20% greater than normal.
I don't understand the purpose of this feat, it gives you the ability to do something you can already do as part of the normal trophy rules but now it adds the limitation that you can't use it for all of the material costs.It saves you 25% of the cost in raw materials. In OP's example the cost is 500gp.
Without the feat you pay 500gp then begin crafting.
With the feat you can use 125GP in harvested parts and only pay 375gp.
The amount saved becomes much more noticeable the higher the cost of the item obviously but that's how it works.
You can already make trophies that are useful for (magic) item crafting. In fact, the normal rules allow you to use a trophy for a 20% bonus value if you use it for its affinity for making a magic item.
...Magical Affinities of Trophies
Certain creatures provide trophy components that, once processed into actual trophies, are exceptionally useful for the construction of alchemical or magic items. When used as raw materials for the crafting of alchemical or magic items, these trophies are worth more than their normal values for the purposes of calculating the total gp needed to craft the item.The following section details trophy uses for a wide range of creature categories. This list is not intended to be exhaustive, and GMs should feel free to add specific affinities to a creature as their campaigns demand.
Recovery: In order to preserve trophy components into a trophy usable for its magical affinities, a character must use a different skill than Craft to create the trophy. The specific skill required varies according to the creature, as detailed below. Creating a trophy to be used in this way is more difficult than creating one to simply be an art object: the DC to create a magical affinity trophy is equal to 20 + the creature’s CR. If a creature’s trophy components fall into multiple categories (such as an erinyes), the
A few notes:
That rule is optional and is not guaranteed to be included without DM permission.
The feat can be taken so long as the book is not disallowed, or DM just doesn't think it will fit the campaign, just like any other feat.
The feat allows you to pull out an amount of generic material that can be freely applied to nearly any crafting check covering up to 25% of the cost to craft the item.
The rule limits what trophy can be used for which magic items by stating exactly what the trophy can be used for. Trophys also have a set amount that they cost based the CR of the creature it was pulled from. It is this amount +20% that can supplement craft cost.
The cost reduction for the feat automatically scales and requires almost no book keeping.
The trophy rules require you to keep note of the trophy CR to determine price, and the type of trophy to even use it properly.
Using Op's example 500gp item;
Feat saves 125gp with no restrictions.
The optional rule gets close by using the trophy of a CR 2 creature at 120gp saved from cost. However, the item MUST have a requirement that meets the trophy's description. So the item has to have the evil descriptor to be applied from the heart of a CR 2 devil for example.
I'm not saying that the optional rules are bad. In fact when used in conjunction with the feat you can save a TON of gold (245gp in Op's example). but the feat has little to no restrictions compared to the rule, and the rule is optional and not guaranteed to be part of the campaign.
Edit: It should be noted that trophy's do not need to be preserved per the rules which is a neat benefit when compared to the feat.
They do need to be preserved in the UW rules, and while it isn't quite stated, its sort of implied that the way to preserve it whether or not you're actually turning those antlers into a wall mount or saving it to add to a fancy magic helmet is the same "Once trophy components are harvested, they generally remain viable for 24 hours before decay or spoilage ruins them. Application of gentle repose, oil of timelessness, or similar magic can extend this period of decay. In order to turn components harvested from a creature into a long-lasting trophy, a character must attempt a check with an appropriate Craft skill (the exact skill varies according to the nature of the trophy the character is creating, but it is usually one from the following list: alchemy, jewelry, leather, or taxidermy) to preserve the components and turn them into a trophy. The DC of this check is equal to 15 + the creature’s CR." Theoretically you just don't turn them into a trophy and they are now preserved, but this would require someone with at least the alchemy skill to be more or less immediately present short of magic.
And this isn't an optional rule more than anything else in Ultimate Wilderness is, so the same idea applies for "if you can ban part or all of the book" then so too can the far weaker harvest parts feat be ignored.
The only upside I can see for the feat version is that you only have to make one check, but its not like most people won't have access to the rest of the party where they can better cover the skills needed in the nonfeat version.
Also, the listed affinities are explicitly nonexhaustive, and I am certain every gm that uses the rule (all 10 of them) will have different gripes about just the given list for its limitations. (IMO) There is also plenty of items or monster types that should be able to used with more or less any item such as dragons, as well as plenty of other things besides "just evil descriptor spell requirements" that any or specific devils should be able to count towards. But again, this is already a very high ymmv area.
I stand corrected on the preservation then, thanks for clarifying!
And this isn't an optional rule more than anything else in Ultimate Wilderness is, so the same idea applies for "if you can ban part or all of the book" then so too can the far weaker harvest parts feat be ignored.
Yup, I said that in my previous statement, but DM's are a lot more lenient with adding feats than introducing whole new rule sets that ANYONE can do.
The only upside I can see for the feat version is that you only have to make one check, but its not like most people won't have access to the rest of the party where they can better cover the skills needed in the nonfeat version.
The upside of the feat is that it doesn't have the same restrictions as the base rules and doesn't require you to kill a CR 20 specific creature to save 12kgp on an item that requires a specific requirement to be used.
Also, the listed affinities are explicitly nonexhaustive, and I am certain every gm that uses the rule (all 10 of them) will have different gripes about just the given list for its limitations. (IMO) There is also plenty of items or monster types that should be able to used with more or less any item such as dragons, as well as plenty of other things besides "just evil descriptor spell requirements" that any or specific devils should be able to count towards. But again, this is already a very high ymmv area.
If you ignore the rules and just allow whatever to work with whatever, the way the feat already does, then yes the feat becomes useless in comparison just as you think. Thankfully, the rules don't allow that so the feat can shine.