Reincarnate DC clarification


Rules Discussion


Hey fellow Pathfinders,

My Party wants to reincarnate my poor char. We want to be as RAW as possible (inofficial community).

The DC for the Ritual would be Base 22 (Ritual Level x2 = 6 on the basic difficulty table on page 503crb)

But then there is the increase in difficulty due to being a ritual:

"Primary checks usually have a very hard DC for a level that’s twice the ritual’s spell level. "

compared to the adjusted DC's (also Page 503 crb):

Hard +2 for Uncommon

Very hard +5 for Rare

For me that would mean that the Primary Caster would have a DC of 24. Since the Ritual Reincarnate is only UNCOMMON (not rare). https://2e.aonprd.com/Rituals.aspx?ID=35

But after digging through the web like a maniac to find the rules for this people claim it would be 27 (so 22 + 5 for very hard) because of the "casting rituals" part. Even though there is a "usually" integrated. Wich points to me that the intend is, that uncommon rituals get the hard and rare rituals the very hard increase.

That would also align pretty well with the capabilitys of my party, wich would set the primary caster at least at a 50% chance to succeed, instead of 35%.

Tyvm for your time!


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

The very hard modifier mentioned by the ritual casting rules seems more specific here, so 27 would be the typical primary DC.

Your GM may allow you to look for things like convergences of ley lines or celestial events like a new moon to make the ritual easier, in line with the rest of the rules on ritual checks.

Ritual Checks wrote:
The GM can adjust the DCs of rituals, add or change primary or secondary checks, or even waive requirements to fit specific circumstances. For example, performing a ritual in a location where ley lines converge on the night of a new moon might make a normally difficult ritual drastically easier.

I've personally reduced the DC for reincarnate rituals if the caster was very emotionally close to the deceased, as well as once negating the cost by having a deific patron (the great old one Bokrug) with influence in the area offer some power in exchange for a favor later.


thewastedwalrus wrote:

The very hard modifier mentioned by the ritual casting rules seems more specific here, so 27 would be the typical primary DC.

Your GM may allow you to look for things like convergences of ley lines or celestial events like a new moon to make the ritual easier, in line with the rest of the rules on ritual checks.

Ritual Checks wrote:
The GM can adjust the DCs of rituals, add or change primary or secondary checks, or even waive requirements to fit specific circumstances. For example, performing a ritual in a location where ley lines converge on the night of a new moon might make a normally difficult ritual drastically easier.
I've personally reduced the DC for reincarnate rituals if the caster was very emotionally close to the deceased, as well as once negating the cost by having a deific patron (the great old one Bokrug) with influence in the area offer some power in exchange for a favor later.

The primary thing that disturbs me is the "usually", in my opinion pointing at a variable adjustment here. Wich would be in line with the uncommon = hard adjustment and rare = very hard adjustment.

@your "personal take" i would have to argue with 5-6 DM's individually wich would also set a precedent in our community. So i would cause a lot of discussions.


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A thing to note is that the rarity of the ritual is unrelated to the complexity of performing it. Most rituals are uncommon because it is assumes that a character will have to make a narrative effort to find and learn them, as these secrets are not like the formula for a common fireball spell--they are not assumed to be taught to just anybody nor is the information generally laying around.

Actually casting a ritual is "usually" a very hard DC because the GM adjusting the DC is RAW. By default every ritual has a very hard DC for the primary caster but circumstance can make the ritual harder or easier to cast and its left up to the GM to decide what circumstances ought to help/hinder. Personally I wish a little more page space was left for offering more mechanical or narrative support for rituals, but they tend to be things which profit from a lot of GM oversight considering their narrative impact.


Rituals only really work with GM buy-in. You need them to give you access in the first place, and they have a lot of leeway for adjusting the DCs. They can also decide to ignore RAW to let you use hero points on the rolls.

So I'd recommend you have a frank conversation with your GM about what they want the outcome to be here. If they want this character back in the story, they should consider which side of the scale their thumb is on. If they don't, then maybe don't bother with the ritual at all. And if they want to leave it up to the dice, then show them the odds and see what they say.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Syra2305 wrote:
thewastedwalrus wrote:

The very hard modifier mentioned by the ritual casting rules seems more specific here, so 27 would be the typical primary DC.

Your GM may allow you to look for things like convergences of ley lines or celestial events like a new moon to make the ritual easier, in line with the rest of the rules on ritual checks.

Ritual Checks wrote:
The GM can adjust the DCs of rituals, add or change primary or secondary checks, or even waive requirements to fit specific circumstances. For example, performing a ritual in a location where ley lines converge on the night of a new moon might make a normally difficult ritual drastically easier.
I've personally reduced the DC for reincarnate rituals if the caster was very emotionally close to the deceased, as well as once negating the cost by having a deific patron (the great old one Bokrug) with influence in the area offer some power in exchange for a favor later.

The primary thing that disturbs me is the "usually", in my opinion pointing at a variable adjustment here. Wich would be in line with the uncommon = hard adjustment and rare = very hard adjustment.

@your "personal take" i would have to argue with 5-6 DM's individually wich would also set a precedent in our community. So i would cause a lot of discussions.

The main rules for ritual checks just say that the GM sets the DC, so 24 or 27 or any other number would be fine depending on what the GM feels is right. They should set the DC in the moment based on what the specific circumstances are, using a very hard DC as the baseline for the most typical circumstances.


Syra2305 wrote:

Since the Ritual Reincarnate is only UNCOMMON (not rare). https://2e.aonprd.com/Rituals.aspx?ID=35

This column in the DC adjustments table is for judgements 'on the spot' when you have only some rarity when comparing something to a common baseline. In case of rituals you have the specific recommendation "take 'very hard' line from the table". And that's it. Rarity in that table column and rarity of rituals aren't connected.

And of course, as people said above, GMs can then adjust DCs as they want.

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