I have a debate within my group surrounding the Ant Haul mechanics.
Does Ant Haul affect the "push, pull, drag" mechanic of the carry capacity or just the carrying action?
To me the spell is clear. Carrying action only, because the chart only lists carry weights.. not push, pull or drag. However.. hopefully I can gain a definitive answer from Paizo.
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As for an official definitive answer, your chances of getting that are pretty slim but I'd be happy to give my 2 cents.
The Spell is fairly specific in that it defines the benefit as it corresponds to your carrying capacity and does not just generally increase your Bulk Encumbrance limits which is what would be required, in my opinion, for it to impact Push/Pull/Drag.
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As for an official definitive answer, your chances of getting that are pretty slim but I'd be happy to give my 2 cents.
The Spell is fairly specific in that it defines the benefit as it corresponds to your carrying capacity and does not just generally increase your Bulk Encumbrance limits which is what would be required, in my opinion, for it to impact Push/Pull/Drag.
I think it does increase your encumbrance limit.
You reinforce the target's musculoskeletal system to bear more weight. The target can carry 3 more Bulk than normal before becoming encumbered and up to a maximum of 6 more Bulk.
As for an official definitive answer, your chances of getting that are pretty slim but I'd be happy to give my 2 cents.
The Spell is fairly specific in that it defines the benefit as it corresponds to your carrying capacity and does not just generally increase your Bulk Encumbrance limits which is what would be required, in my opinion, for it to impact Push/Pull/Drag.
I think it does increase your encumbrance limit.
You reinforce the target's musculoskeletal system to bear more weight. The target can carry 3 more Bulk than normal before becoming encumbered and up to a maximum of 6 more Bulk.
And here is my problem. A split of perception, leading to differing conclusions.
The spell is very vague in that it effects your carry capacity, for what you can carry. It's the misleading "carry capacity" that's highlighted, which leads to others thinking push, pull and drag are changed as well. Cause those are determined by your carry capacity, although the spell explicitly says it only effects what you can carry. Carrying, to me, is an action in and of itself. Pushing, pulling and dragging are separate actions under the "carrying capacity" umbrella but not an act of carrying at all.Here is the spell in question...https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/ant-haul/?msclkid=9d 836545b6be11ecb4d799e7fe0b519b
Under that interpretation, your strength modifier also wouldn't help you push, pull, or drag since strength only affects how much you can carry.
Side note: Where are the rules to "push" and "pull" equipment located. My searches keep coming up empty.Strength
Strength measures your character’s physical power. Strength is important if your character plans to engage in hand-to-hand combat. Your Strength modifier gets added to melee damage rolls and determines how much your character can carry.
Here's where I found it.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alignment-description/carrying-capacity/#:~:text=Q uadrupeds%20can%20carry%20heavier%20loads,%C3%9712%2C%20Colossal%20%C3%9724 .| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The description of Bulk Limit also uses the word "carry" rather than "carry, push, pull, or drag."
BULK LIMITS
You can carry an amount of Bulk equal to 5 plus your Strength modifier without penalty; if you carry more, you gain the encumbered condition. You can’t hold or carry more Bulk than 10 plus your Strength modifier.
The description of strength does the same.
STRENGTH
Strength measures your character’s physical power. Strength is important if your character plans to engage in hand-to-hand combat. Your Strength modifier gets added to melee damage rolls and determines how much your character can carry.
Under your interpretation of the terminology, neither the bulk limit nor the strength modifier apply to pushing, pulling, or dragging.
So how would you calculate the effects of dragging a 2 bulk item without using the bulk limit or the strength modifier?
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Under that interpretation, your strength modifier also wouldn't help you push, pull, or drag since strength only affects how much you can carry.
Side note: Where are the rules to "push" and "pull" equipment located. My searches keep coming up empty.Strength
Strength measures your character’s physical power. Strength is important if your character plans to engage in hand-to-hand combat. Your Strength modifier gets added to melee damage rolls and determines how much your character can carry.Here's where I found it.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alignment-description/carrying-capacity/#:~:text=Q uadrupeds%20can%20carry%20heavier%20loads,%C3%9712%2C%20Colossal%20%C3%9724 .
Sorry for the confusion, I deleted that post so I could make my point more clearly.
The d20pfsrd link that you posted seems to be for Pathfinder 1st edition rather than 2nd edition. (I really didn't want to navigate through all of the pop-up just to be certain.) Even for 1st edition the site was never official and often inaccurate. Archives of Nethys is the official site for the PF2 rules.
If you've been mixing PF1 rules and PF2 rules, then I can understand why you are finding the carrying rules confusing.
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There are the rules for Dragging things. Which references the character's bulk carrying capacity. So increasing the carrying capacity would increase the amount that they can drag too.
Under that interpretation, your strength modifier also wouldn't help you push, pull, or drag since strength only affects how much you can carry.
Side note: Where are the rules to "push" and "pull" equipment located. My searches keep coming up empty.Strength
Strength measures your character’s physical power. Strength is important if your character plans to engage in hand-to-hand combat. Your Strength modifier gets added to melee damage rolls and determines how much your character can carry.Here's where I found it.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alignment-description/carrying-capacity/#:~:text=Q uadrupeds%20can%20carry%20heavier%20loads,%C3%9712%2C%20Colossal%20%C3%9724 .Sorry for the confusion, I deleted that post so I could make my point more clearly.
The d20pfsrd link that you posted seems to be for Pathfinder 1st edition rather than 2nd edition. (I really didn't want to navigate through all of the pop-up just to be certain.) Even for 1st edition the site was never official and often inaccurate. Archives of Nethys is the official site for the PF2 rules.
If you've been mixing PF1 rules and PF2 rules, then I can understand why you are finding the carrying rules confusing.
We are playing 1st edition. My apologies for putting this in the 2nd edition forum. The SRD spell I referenced (and used) is 1st edition and only increases what a character can carry, has no impact on strength in any other way. Including armor penalties still apply, etc.
The 2nd edition version of Ant Haul is far more specific about what it does.
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Okay, in that case, I'll go ahead and flag this thread to be moved over to the 1E Rules Forum, and here is the official SRD text of the spell:
The target’s carrying capacity triples. This does not affect the creature’s actual Strength in any way, merely the amount of material it can carry while benefiting from this spell.
The rules for Carrying Capacity can be found HERE, but the relevant bits for this discussion are:
• "A character can generally push or drag along the ground as much as five times his maximum load", and
• "A character’s maximum load is the highest amount of weight listed for a character’s Strength in the heavy load column of Table 7–4."
So to use an example, let's say an 18 Str PC has Ant Haul cast on them. Normally, they can Drag 1500lbs (300lbs x 5). With the spell, they can now Drag 4500lbs.