So basically, the Lycanthrope template, or maybe one of its variants, but there is no Human or Hybrid/Animal forms, only Hybrid or Animal.
I guess they wouldn't gain the Shapechanger subtype, since they no longer shapechange, and wouldn't gain Change Shape either.
same as lycanthropy.
1 lower at absolute most
So I'm not sure I follow, There is no Humanoid form... there's no hybrid/animal form... but they could just be an Animal? Or a Hybrid... which would mean they were a hybrid/animal form?
If they don't have multiple shapes... they probably wouldn't be a Shapechanger and wouldn't have Change Shape.
Just rate it as a creature that has the powers and abilities you give it like any other creature; DR, Regen, abilities, attack and damage bonuses, HD, etc.
I mean, your werewolf that is only a wolf... would basically be a wolf (with Trip), DR 10/silver, lycanthropic empathy with wolves (which should probably be something a normal wolf has already), and inflicts a Curse of Lycanthropy on victims (whether they become normal werewolves or these special only wolves is anyone's guess).
So... probably only the DR 10/silver is a factor in rating CR. That should be assessed based on a creature's normal CR to determine how much of an increase. Since the example here is a wolf, which is CR 1, DR 10/silver should probably be a +2 increase. DR 10 is good, but silver is not hard to get ahold of and is, in fact, one of the more common materials known to be effective against most special monsters. Whereas a creature that's CR 4 or higher would probably only rate a +1 CR increase for it.
Otherwise, like Name Violation points out, the CR increase for normal lycanthropy is +1 CR to the creature's normal base. It probably shouldn't be any more than that. Why isn't it more? Maybe they considered the downsides of involuntary transofrmations, murderous killing of friends and allies, and other factors of the normal curse as mitigators? This form probably wouldn't have those... no reason it couldn't still black out and just go on a killing spree on full moon nights.
Pizza Lord wrote: So I'm not sure I follow, There is no Humanoid form... there's no hybrid/animal form... but they could just be an Animal? Or a Hybrid... which would mean they were a hybrid/animal form?
If they don't have multiple shapes... they probably wouldn't be a Shapechanger and wouldn't have Change Shape.
Just rate it as a creature that has the powers and abilities you give it like any other creature; DR, Regen, abilities, attack and damage bonuses, HD, etc.
I mean, your werewolf that is only a wolf... would basically be a wolf (with Trip), DR 10/silver, lycanthropic empathy with wolves (which should probably be something a normal wolf has already), and inflicts a Curse of Lycanthropy on victims (whether they become normal werewolves or these special only wolves is anyone's guess).
So... probably only the DR 10/silver is a factor in rating CR. That should be assessed based on a creature's normal CR to determine how much of an increase. Since the example here is a wolf, which is CR 1, DR 10/silver should probably be a +2 increase. DR 10 is good, but silver is not hard to get ahold of and is, in fact, one of the more common materials known to be effective against most special monsters. Whereas a creature that's CR 4 or higher would probably only rate a +1 CR increase for it.
Otherwise, like Name Violation points out, the CR increase for normal lycanthropy is +1 CR to the creature's normal base. It probably shouldn't be any more than that. Why isn't it more? Maybe they considered the downsides of involuntary transofrmations, murderous killing of friends and allies, and other factors of the normal curse as mitigators? This form probably wouldn't have those... no reason it couldn't still black out and just go on a killing spree on full moon nights.
To be honest, I was half asleep when I asked this. I probably should have made a note in my notes app, and made the topic today, after I slept, but I didn't.
Anyways, I meant they don't have both a Hybrid and Animal form, just one or the other, and they lose their Humanoid form they previously had.
Part of this would be making more intelligent animals, in the style of the Princess and the Frog (those cursed to permanent Animal form), and the other was for making neat half humanoid, half animal, monsters, kinda like the Minotaur. Also, I like the idea of an occasional anthropomorphic animal, or actual animal but is intelligent, thus not being a curse, just something they always were. Certain things from fiction like these can be represented with this idea.
The reason I figured it might be more than CR +1, is because the Humanoid form is the weakest form of a Lycanthrope, but this idea of mine has them always in the Hybrid or Animal form, which are stronger.
There's multiple things to consider here.
Since afflicted lycanthropy is all about changing form, that wouldn't work with your idea anyway, so the remainder of this post is about natural lychanthropes.
The power level change of natural lycanthropy is extremely uneven, as it depends on the strand of lycanthropy (which animal), and on what the creature otherwise has (as in, what build, since humanoids are usually defined by their class levels).
Mechanically, the hybrid form is by far the strongest anyway, to the point that there is virtually no mechanical reason for a lycanthrope to every be in another form, unless they want to hide or blend in.
Unlike any other form of polymorphing, lycanthropy overwrites your ability scores (taking the best of either yours or the animal's), which logically means that those with weaker base stats become stronger, and those with stronger base stats only gain comperatively little (+2str +2con +2wis). You might also lose out on some abilities based on physique (as normal for polymorph effects, which Change Shape still is), but those are usually not a big deal for humanoids anyway (barring specific builds, or unusual races like Strix).
Most importantly, the forms are very uneven in their ability scores, and in general the amount of synergy between the animal side and class levels has extreme variance. Lycanthropy comes with +2 Wis and -2 Cha, which obivously benefits some classes and hinders others. Spellcasters in general only really gain defensive boosts, how much depends on the animal (for example, werewolf is 15dex 15con with +4 natural armor, whereas werebear is 13dex 19con with +8 NA). The exception here being werebat, because of the permanent flight. Martial characters can have a much bigger power boost, with emphasis on can - weretiger comes with 25 strength in hybrid form, three primary natural attacks, rake, and pounce. Put that on a martial or gish melee build that works with natural weapons, and you have a combat beast at your hands (pun intended), with an increase in effective CR that is way more than the +1 CR the template claims. Meanwhile, a werewolf archer, unless deliberately minmaxed, only really gains a bit of AC and maybe a tad more con, making it much weaker than e.g. the advanced simple template.
All in all, being stuck in hybrid form doesn't change the CR compared to normal natural lycanthropy.
Permanent animal form would obviously hose non-psychic casters, and only work with few builds. You can also do the same more elegantly by just making the creature an awakened animal.
Recent threads in Homebrew and House Rules
|
