When do you choose the target with Spell Swipe?


Rules Discussion


Hi everyone,

Spell Swipe is not very clear. If you use a single target spell attack roll spell for your Spellstrike, it doesn't say if you choose the target of the spell before or after knowing if you hit. As it clearly changes the efficiency of the feat.

Thanks for any input.


To my thinking, it would be a 'too bad to be true' ruling to say that with Spell Swipe you have to pick which enemy gets affected by the spell first before rolling against either of them.

The first sentence of the last paragraph causes me some concern.

Quote:
If you use Expansive Spellstrike to Spellstrike with an area spell, apply the area as described in Expansive Spellstrike, choosing one of the creatures you Strike to determine the area and whether the spell fails due to a critically failed Strike.

This does sound like you have to choose the target of the spell portion of spellstrike first before rolling.

But then it continues the paragraph with:

Quote:
If you use Expansive Spellstrike to Spellstrike with a targeted spell, the spell is lost completely only if both Strikes are critical failures.

Which puts me back to thinking that you roll the attack first and choose any of the available successfully hit targets as being affected by the spell.


I've changed my question, as I was speaking of spell attack roll spells. In the case of Expansive Spellstrike, it's quite clear, even if it's complex.


Reading through this a bit more, I am even more certain that you roll attack rolls first when using normal single-target attack-roll-spell spellstrike.

The only part of spellstrike that you would have to pick before rolling is if you are using Expansive Spellstrike with an area spell - you have to pick the area of the spell first and that comes with the added drawback of failing the spell entirely if you critically fail the attack roll against that enemy.

But even with Expansive Spellstrike, if you use it with a spell that targets a creature instead of affecting an area then you again get to choose which creature to affect after rolling the attack rolls.


I think you're right. If you have to choose the target first, then it becomes way too hard to use for a small gain (considering that it's a level 8 feat so quite a high level one).


As for wording analysis, the important sentence is this one

Quote:
If your spell could affect two or more targets, your spell affects whichever foes you hit, not just the first target; otherwise, choose one target to affect with the spell.

Which if I remove the option of affecting both targets because the spell chosen only affects one creature, then I am left with:

Quote:
If your spell could affect two or more targets, your spell affects whichever foes you hit, not just the first target; otherwise, choose one target to affect with the spell.

'your spell affects whichever foes you hit, choose one target to affect with the spell.'

So if you miss one of the targets, choose the other one that you hit.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Second Edition / Rules Discussion / When do you choose the target with Spell Swipe? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.