I'm confused about what's a mythic spell. Its seems like the SRD lists both augmented regular spells, and mythic spells, but the text under Mythic Magic also includes augmented spells as mythic spells. Both the Mythic Spellcasting universal path ability and the Mythic Spell Lore feat say that you need to know the non-mythic version of a spell to use the mythic versions, but the few spells listed under "Mythic Spells," like Ascension and Deathless, don't have non-mythic versions so far as I can tell.
I don't see any way, however, to take the spells listed a Mythic Spells that have no non-mythic version, like Ascension and Deathless, version other than taking the Mythic Spellcasting universal path ability or the Mythic Spell Lore feat.
So do both the path and the feat allow you to choose among both augmented regular spells whose original versions you know and mythic spells that have no no-mythic version?
Thanks!
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Ascension is available as both a Mythic spell and a 'non-Mythic' spell:
- The 'non-mythic' version uses a spell slot as normal and generally requires the mythic rules be 'in play' in the campaign, but does not require the expenditure of Mythic Power to cast.
- The Mythic version lasts longer and can use the caster as the focus, but costs a Mythic Power to cast.
Augmented spells are Mythic spells, but have additional requirements before you can use them. Often you need to have to be at least a certain tier before you can cast them and often it requires spending more than a single mythic point. If you know the mythic version of the spell you also know the augmented version, but may not be able to cast it until you meet the requirements.
Some spell in the Mythic Adventures book are actually normal spells and do not require you to be mythic to learn them.
Augmented spells are Mythic spells, but have additional requirements before you can use them. Often you need to have to be at least a certain tier before you can cast them and often it requires spending more than a single mythic point. If you know the mythic version of the spell you also know the augmented version, but may not be able to cast it until you meet the requirements.
Some spell in the Mythic Adventures book are actually normal spells and do not require you to be mythic to learn them.
Hi Stranger! The d20PFSRD lists Augmented Spells separately from Mythic Spells under Mythic Magic. https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/mythic/mythic-magic/mythi c-spells/ascension/ Separating them into two subcategories makes it seem like they're supposed to be different, but it looks like in the SRD for the new spells from Mythic Adventures they just made a separate listing where they list the effects of the normal version first, then the mythic version, and finally any augmenting that's possible.
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Hi Stranger! The d20PFSRD lists Augmented Spells separately from Mythic Spells under Mythic Magic. https://www.d20pfsrd.com/alternative-rule-systems/mythic/mythic-magic/mythi c-spells/ascension/ Separating them into two subcategories makes it seem like they're supposed to be different, but it looks like in the SRD for the new spells from Mythic Adventures they just made a separate listing where they list the effects of the normal version first, then the mythic version, and finally any augmenting that's possible.Augmented spells are Mythic spells, but have additional requirements before you can use them. Often you need to have to be at least a certain tier before you can cast them and often it requires spending more than a single mythic point. If you know the mythic version of the spell you also know the augmented version, but may not be able to cast it until you meet the requirements.
Some spell in the Mythic Adventures book are actually normal spells and do not require you to be mythic to learn them.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/ is a third party site.
http://legacy.aonprd.com/mythicAdventures/mythicSpells/spellIndex.html is the relevant official PRD for PF1's Mythic spells.
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If you don't have access to the actual Mythic Adventures book, you may want to read through the mythic rules. One line in particular does clear up your confusion:
If you know a mythic spell, you automatically know how to cast the augmented version of that mythic spell upon reaching the required tier.
If you don't have access to the actual Mythic Adventures book, you may want to read through the mythic rules. One line in particular does clear up your confusion:
If you know a mythic spell, you automatically know how to cast the augmented version of that mythic spell upon reaching the required tier.
Thanks. The confusion comes from the poor wording on the third-party PF1 SRD I was using. I'd read that phrase and I do have the book (one for me and one I gave to the player playing the mythic archmage) but because the third-party SRD makes the false distinction between Augmented Spells and Mythic Spells, that phrase didn't clarify. I understood when Taja showed me the actual SRD.
Which brings me to a related question: as a general rule do only the listed spells in the book have mythic versions? The book, for instance, has a mythic heal, but not mythic mass heal. Does that mean there's no mythic mass heal, or that we're supposed to apply the mythic improvements given in heal to mass heal if we want to learn a mythic mass heal?
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If you don't have access to the actual Mythic Adventures book, you may want to read through the mythic rules. One line in particular does clear up your confusion:
If you know a mythic spell, you automatically know how to cast the augmented version of that mythic spell upon reaching the required tier.Thanks. The confusion comes from the poor wording on the third-party PF1 SRD I was using. I'd read that phrase and I do have the book (one for me and one I gave to the player playing the mythic archmage) but because the third-party SRD makes the false distinction between Augmented Spells and Mythic Spells, that phrase didn't clarify. I understood when Taja showed me the actual SRD.
Which brings me to a related question: as a general rule do only the listed spells in the book have mythic versions? The book, for instance, has a mythic heal, but not mythic mass heal. Does that mean there's no mythic mass heal, or that we're supposed to apply the mythic improvements given in heal to mass heal if we want to learn a mythic mass heal?
Mythic rules were not well supported by pathfinder generally (I don't think they were that popular sadly) so there's a very small selection of mythic spells/creatures/etc. Legendary games and Kobold Press released a number of mythic suppliments but as with any 3rd party product the power level of the contents is variable. For example I prefer eternal youth (legendary games mythic heroes handbook) over longevity (pathfinder mythic adventures) as its not that big a power difference and has a higher pre-requisite to compensate for it (see below).
Longevity
Upon taking this ability, you can no longer die from old age. If you have penalties to your physical ability scores due to aging, you no longer take those penalties. You still continue to age, and you gain all the benefits to your mental scores.
Eternal Youth
Mythic Tier 3 required
You look youthful and ignore aging penalties to Strength, Dexterity and Constitution for being middle aged as if using the lesser age resistance spell. While you do not suffer the penalties for aging, you do continue to age and can eventually die of old age.
At 6th tier and above, you ignore the penalties for middle and old age, as if using the age resistance spell.
At 9th tier, when you gain the immortal base mythic ability you ignore the penalties from venerable age as if using the greater age resistance spell. You cease aging and gain immunity to effects that cause unnatural aging such as the curse of ages and cannot die of old age. This effect is not magical and cannot be dispelled or suppressed.
In addition as a full round action you can spend one use of your mythic power to change your appearance to match any age you wish. Your apperance is still your own only your apparent age is changed. This change in your appearance is permanent until you spend another use of your mythic power to adopt a different apparent age. This is is a supernatural polymorph effect that is suppressed whenever you use another polymorph effect.
So eternal youth is more powerful than longevity but you can't take it till 3rd tier unlike longevity which can be taken at 1st and eternal youth doesn't actually make you immortal till tier 9 when you get the base mythic path ability of the same name unlike longevity which makes you immortal from the get go. As I said I prefer eternal youth as much because of its slowly growing in power as your mythic tier increases as its actual effects.
Now on the other hand you have things like mythic quickened spell from Kobold Press's mythic spell compendium.
Quicken Spell-Mythic
Mythic Tier 10 required.
Quicken Spell Metamagic required
You can prepare any spell as a quickened spell regardless of its normal casting time, allowing you to cast it as a swift action. If a target provokes an attack of opportunity from you you can target it with a quickened spell as your attack of opportunity. Only quickened spells with a specific number of targets (rather than effect or area) can be cast as an attack of opportunity and only the creature that provoked the attack is targeted by the spell (regardless of how many creatures the spell normally targets).
Alternatively you may expend two uses of mythic power to cast a spell as a quickened spell (gaining only the the normal benefits of a quickend spell, rather than the increased benefits outlined above) without preparing it as quickened in advance or increasing the level of a spell slot it uses.
Sooo in summary you have the following options . . .
1) Use the relatively limited mythic options from Paizo.
2) Use 3rd party resources but be aware you need to vet and ban/allow on a case by case basis rather than just allowing a specific book.
3) Make up your own mythic spells and abilities in line with the desired power of your game as a addition to the Paizo and/or 3rd party resources.
Personally I prefer 3 as I said I' allow eternal youth to replace longevity but not mythic quickened spell, on the other hand I would allow mythic acid splash also from kobold press's mythic spell compendium (Add half myhtic tier to damage and splash damage to adjacent creatures for 1 point, expend 2 mythic power to agument and have them take the same amount of damage next round) and I have house ruled the way mythic spell lore works (you gain the ability to learn mythic spells as per your class e.g. wizard can scribe new spells into their spellbook if they find them and you gain 1 per tier the same way you gain x normal spells per level i.e minimum 10 but wizard and other prepared casters can learn more if they find/research them.). However it really is a GM call and 99% of any games you play that are mythic will probably use 1 banning 3rd party or house rule variants.
Thanks for all the information, Senko. Wolfgang would be thrilled if I started buying from Kobold Press again. I had one of the original subscriptions to Kobold Quarterly. I think I canceled when they stopped printing 3.5 versions of everything.
So basically in Pathfinder there are no mythic versions of tings like mass heal. Do any of the third-party products have it? It wouldn't be too hard to extrapolate one from mythic heal of course. I'm allowing a mythic version of my 9th level coherent light spell. The normal version actually has two options, a red ray that does up to 25d6 of light damage to one target, or a green beam that does only 2d6 per round but allows people to target the target creature without a miss chance even if it's invisible. (Basically it replicates the state of laser science when I was a kid in the 1960s when they had ruby pulse lasers and continuous emission neon lasers. :-D ) The mytthic version does the standard sizing up the energy damage from d6s to d10s, and I'm adding that if the creature hit by the ray missing a Reflex save, it suffers blindness.
So do both of these third-party products have a bunch of additional mythic spells?
I see why you like Eternal Youth better. I like the fact that it powers up gradually.
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Thanks for all the information, Senko. Wolfgang would be thrilled if I started buying from Kobold Press again. I had one of the original subscriptions to Kobold Quarterly. I think I canceled when they stopped printing 3.5 versions of everything.
So basically in Pathfinder there are no mythic versions of tings like mass heal. Do any of the third-party products have it? It wouldn't be too hard to extrapolate one from mythic heal of course. I'm allowing a mythic version of my 9th level coherent light spell. The normal version actually has two options, a red ray that does up to 25d6 of light damage to one target, or a green beam that does only 2d6 per round but allows people to target the target creature without a miss chance even if it's invisible. (Basically it replicates the state of laser science when I was a kid in the 1960s when they had ruby pulse lasers and continuous emission neon lasers. :-D ) The mytthic version does the standard sizing up the energy damage from d6s to d10s, and I'm adding that if the creature hit by the ray missing a Reflex save, it suffers blindness.
So do both of these third-party products have a bunch of additional mythic spells?
I see why you like Eternal Youth better. I like the fact that it powers up gradually.
It is in Kobold Press's mythic spell compendium but its just "all those targetted benefit as per mythic heal". Both Kobold Press Mythic Spell Compendium and Legendary Games Mythic Character Codex have mythic versions of various spells (and a few new ones in the character codex at least). Though as I said they are a mixed bag in terms of power/quality.
You also have Paizo's Mythic Adventures, Legendary Games Mythic Monster Manual I and II and Legendary games Mythic Hero Handbook that I have. I know Legendary game did produce other things in a similar vein such as mythic feats but I've not bought those, not sure if Kobold Press has other content. Paizo's Mythic Adventures is as far as I know their only mythic publication containing a lot of the information that was in the wrath of the righteous AP and a few other things more general in nature for mythic games.
Thanks for all the great information! I have a very basic question. The rules say that if you memorize spells you need never memorize the mythic version of a spell, but CAN you memorize a mythic version so that you don't have to use a point to cast it? I'm thinking they mean "no" but simply didn't express it clearly.
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Thanks for all the great information! I have a very basic question. The rules say that if you memorize spells you need never memorize the mythic version of a spell, but CAN you memorize a mythic version so that you don't have to use a point to cast it? I'm thinking they mean "no" but simply didn't express it clearly.
No.
These spells aren't separate spells you gain as a spell known from your spellcasting class, but rather mythically charged versions of spells you already know.
You don't prepare a mythic spell. (You can't because - as quoted above - the mythic spell isn't a separate spell you know.) You prepare the spell and then decide when you cast it whether or not to spend the mythic power to cast it as a mythic spell.
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Best way to think of it in my opinion is that you are casting a normal spell that reacts to your power. That is . . .
I am a mage and because of my studies/genes I am able to wield mana (or whatever you want to term magical energy). Normally this is a straight X = Y process where you take the mana shape it into the form you want and get an effect.
The process is always constant because for all its "magic" effect it still obeys natural laws. Do the process for fireball and you always get a fireball, that is X (Mana) + Y (Fireball Process) = Z (Fireball spell). If you do the process differently (metamagic) then you get a fireball that acts differently. In this case its X (Mana) + Y (Maxmise Fireball Process) = Z (Maximised Fireball). Now when your a mythic being some (in my opinion it should be all) spells react to that power and behave differently than they would to just mana* but still in a repeatable manner. It is now W (Mythic Power) + X (Mana) + Y (Fireball Process) = Z (Mythic Fireball). If you increase the ratio to have the spell possess more mythic power (augmenting) then it continues to grow more power as the stronger mythic power enhances it.
The other benefit of this is it works well with a few suppliments I like where various environments and materials react to magical energy in spefic ways. It continues the mana + X theme so you can say infuse magical energy into platinum and get a different effect to magical energy infussed into gold but the effects are always conistent because your creating a magical alloy (Magical Gold) in the same way you can create a non-magical alloy e.g bronze.
I did consider having it be a mana vs mythic powering spell but the augmenting convinced me to go with it as being a mixture. Still not entirely sure I shouldn't go with a Mana 100% = Normal Spell, Mana + Mythic 50/50 = Mythic Spell, Mana + Mythic 25/75 = 1 augment and Mythic 100% = 2 agument progress though.
*I'm also not sure how best to describe mana vs mythic power at the moment I'm dabbling with fuels e.g. mana is diseal and mythic power is jet fuel as its more reactive.
Thanks for all the great information! I have a very basic question. The rules say that if you memorize spells you need never memorize the mythic version of a spell, but CAN you memorize a mythic version so that you don't have to use a point to cast it? I'm thinking they mean "no" but simply didn't express it clearly.No.
These spells aren't separate spells you gain as a spell known from your spellcasting class, but rather mythically charged versions of spells you already know.You don't prepare a mythic spell. (You can't because - as quoted above - the mythic spell isn't a separate spell you know.) You prepare the spell and then decide when you cast it whether or not to spend the mythic power to cast it as a mythic spell.
Great! Thanks very much for the citation, Senko!
Best way to think of it in my opinion is that you are casting a normal spell that reacts to your power. That is . . .
I am a mage and because of my studies/genes I am able to wield mana (or whatever you want to term magical energy). Normally this is a straight X = Y process where you take the mana shape it into the form you want and get an effect.
The process is always constant because for all its "magic" effect it still obeys natural laws. Do the process for fireball and you always get a fireball, that is X (Mana) + Y (Fireball Process) = Z (Fireball spell). If you do the process differently (metamagic) then you get a fireball that acts differently. In this case its X (Mana) + Y (Maxmise Fireball Process) = Z (Maximised Fireball). Now when your a mythic being some (in my opinion it should be all) spells react to that power and behave differently than they would to just mana* but still in a repeatable manner. It is now W (Mythic Power) + X (Mana) + Y (Fireball Process) = Z (Mythic Fireball). If you increase the ratio to have the spell possess more mythic power (augmenting) then it continues to grow more power as the stronger mythic power enhances it.
The other benefit of this is it works well with a few suppliments I like where various environments and materials react to magical energy in spefic ways. It continues the mana + X theme so you can say infuse magical energy into platinum and get a different effect to magical energy infussed into gold but the effects are always conistent because your creating a magical alloy (Magical Gold) in the same way you can create a non-magical alloy e.g bronze.
I did consider having it be a mana vs mythic powering spell but the augmenting convinced me to go with it as being a mixture. Still not entirely sure I shouldn't go with a Mana 100% = Normal Spell, Mana + Mythic 50/50 = Mythic Spell, Mana + Mythic 25/75 = 1 augment and Mythic 100% = 2 agument progress though.
*I'm also not sure how best to describe mana vs mythic power at the moment I'm dabbling with...
That's a great way to put it. Are you specifically using a mana-based magic system?
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Thanks for all the great information! I have a very basic question. The rules say that if you memorize spells you need never memorize the mythic version of a spell, but CAN you memorize a mythic version so that you don't have to use a point to cast it? I'm thinking they mean "no" but simply didn't express it clearly.No.
These spells aren't separate spells you gain as a spell known from your spellcasting class, but rather mythically charged versions of spells you already know.You don't prepare a mythic spell. (You can't because - as quoted above - the mythic spell isn't a separate spell you know.) You prepare the spell and then decide when you cast it whether or not to spend the mythic power to cast it as a mythic spell.Great! Thanks very much for the citation, Senko!
...Best way to think of it in my opinion is that you are casting a normal spell that reacts to your power. That is . . .
I am a mage and because of my studies/genes I am able to wield mana (or whatever you want to term magical energy). Normally this is a straight X = Y process where you take the mana shape it into the form you want and get an effect.
The process is always constant because for all its "magic" effect it still obeys natural laws. Do the process for fireball and you always get a fireball, that is X (Mana) + Y (Fireball Process) = Z (Fireball spell). If you do the process differently (metamagic) then you get a fireball that acts differently. In this case its X (Mana) + Y (Maxmise Fireball Process) = Z (Maximised Fireball). Now when your a mythic being some (in my opinion it should be all) spells react to that power and behave differently than they would to just mana* but still in a repeatable manner. It is now W (Mythic Power) + X (Mana) + Y (Fireball Process) = Z (Mythic Fireball). If you increase the ratio to have the spell possess more mythic power (augmenting) then it continues to
The quote was Belafon not me
No I'd like too and have a fan made one but it'd change so much I've not used it. Not so much in the mechanics which are fairly straightforward but in making magic users even more powerful which is already something people have a problem (they slowly get the ability to use higher level spots the same as cantrips i.e.g can cast magic missile all day).
I generally consider magic users to be either having a genetic internal ability to generate magic (sorcerer's, bloodragers, dragons and other creatures with spell like abilities) or to be using ambient magic (wizards and other arcane spellcasters without a bloodline). I do however use a houserule that dead magic and anti-magic are different things. In a dead magic zone a wizard couldn't use magic because there's none to draw on but a sorcerer could as their generating their own power. In an anti-magic zone however neither could use magic because its being cancelled out for sorcerers and isn't in a form wizards can tap into (negative charge vs positive say). This also explains the mythic ability that allows certain spells to be used in your own anti-magic zone (might be a spell I'd need to check as I've not looked at it for awhile). You've learnt to partially use that anti-magic as a power source rather the normal mana.
On the other hand certain locations e.g. ley lines can supercharge a wizards magic (free empower metamgic) but not a sorcerers.