Disguise Kit, Disguise Self Spell, and other bonuses


Rules Questions


So I can't find anything on this, but apparently the disguise self spell is a +10 untyped bonus to disguise checks, while the disguise kit is of course listed as a +2 competence bonus. Obviously, by RAW, they should stack, but based on the wording of the spell...

Disguise Self wrote:
You make yourself – including clothing, armor, weapons, and equipment – look different. You can seem 1 foot shorter or taller, thin, fat, or in between. You cannot change your creature type (although you can appear as another subtype). Otherwise, the extent of the apparent change is up to you. You could add or obscure a minor feature or look like an entirely different person or gender.

Why wouldn't any changes you make with the kit be completely obscured by the effect of a disguise self spell, as if either the spell were a competence bonus and they weren't stacking, or some other method of simply not getting the bonus?

I guess this can also be extended to things like alter self and then wearing a hat of disguise, etc.

Liberty's Edge

I would require the disguise kit to be used after the spell, as some of the effects of the kit are things that will be changed by the spell (unless your goal is to make a second disguise that gives a false appearance if someone uses True sight).

Most spells can't give the face of a specific person, so the kit can be used (together with the skill) to add to the effect of a spell with the goal to resemble a specific person.


Why can't disguise self be used to emulate a specific person? Nothing in the text forbids it, and it even says "You could... look like an entirely different person..."? The modifiers for emulating a specific person are on someone else's perception check to notice you aren't who you are disguised as.

Liberty's Edge

Sorry, I hadn't checked Disguise self specifically. Was thinking mostly of Alter self and other polymorph spells.
Disguise self hasn't the caveat that you get a somewhat generic appearance.

Checking Disguise self, there is no problem with using the disguise kit before or after using the spell, as it is a way more controllable illusion. My previous comment is valid for polymorph spells only.

From an RL logic point of view, the illusion has the same effect as the disguise kit, so the kit effect would be subsumed by the spell. RAW they stack.

If you want an in-game reason, we can consider the text of the spell:

Quote:

The spell does not provide the abilities or mannerisms of the

chosen form, nor does it alter the perceived tactile (touch) or audible
(sound) properties of you or your equipment.

The disguise kit can include stuff like gloves, perfume, and jewelry that could help to disguise the sound of your armor or its smell or change the sensation of the touch of your hand.

Adding a further +2 modifier has a smaller impact on the chance of the disguise working than the illusion, but the disguise kit can cover some detail that isn't covered by the illusion.


the disguise kit and disguise self spell effects do stack IF you are targeting the same look/disguise.

Alter Self is a polymorph and thus different rules and precedence of effects apply.

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