Holy Warrior (Paladin Archetype)

[alex verrall]

Holy Warrior
Combat feats- at 4th,7th,10th,13th levels you may select any leadership, combat or divine feat you meet the prerequisites for. This replaces spellcasting.

Banner bearer- at 3rd,9th,16th level you may increase the range of all auras by 5ft or increase the bonuses granted by 2. This replaces mercies gained at 3rd,9th and 16th levels.

Prayer in Steel- at 6th,12th,18th levels you gain weapon training as per the fighter class feature (you may also select weapon training variants). This replaces channel positive energy and 6th,12th,18th level mercies.

Aura of Holy Wrath- at 8th level if an ally is reduced to 0 Hp within 10ft you gain a free use of smite evil against the triggering enemy, allies within 10ft of you get a +2 bonus to attack against the target whilst the smite is active. Replaces aura of resolve.

Hello I have attached the archetype above and would love some feedback on it. Thanks in advance

[*Thelith]

4 feats to replace all of my spell casting?
No thanks.

Banner bearer, is the choice permanent?
Or can I choose different daily?
+6 to the bonus of an aura is probably damn good, better than mercies probably.

Weapon training vs an already weak channel.
So no spells, and now even less channel/loh.

Boost my auras, then remove the good one?
And to gain something that might happen once every several encounters?

So I am a fighter, forced to be lawful good, with less feats, less weapon training, no armor training, but I can smite evil, and lay of hands less than a normal paladin. And I'm not even immune to charms.

Maybe someone else has something better to say, but this feels like a butchering of the paladin with a big loss for every replacement, except for banner bearer, which is made worse by the loss of an aura later on.

[Andostre]

I understand the appeal of removing the spells from the paladin, but spells are way too versatile to give up without some major benefits in return.

[*Thelith]

The problem with removing spells is two-fold.
One, you lose actual spells...which are hugely versatile and powerful.
Two, and maybe even more important for a paladin whom doesn't get full casting is that it removes the ability to use wands/scrolls from your spell list.

"Here mr paladin use this wand of cure light to fill us up after fights"

"Sorry, I'm just a lawful good fighter with a crippling code of honor, maybe the rogue can UMD it for you"

[Ryze Kuja]

Instead of removing Spellcasting altogether, how about 4 Combat feats or Divine feats (no leadership) and you lose 1 spell per day per spell level.

Also, what truly makes a Paladin a Paladin is Smite and LoH/Mercies. I wouldn't trade out all those mercies if I were you.

[alex verrall]

Hey guys, The archetype still keeps lay on hands its just the area effect channel that they lose. I agree that losing aura of resolve may be too much as charm is one of the more dangerous status effects.

I have a list of "holy scourges" to replace mercies that add some offensive utility to lay on hands and some smite related buffs but not really ready to share them yet.

In terms of spell loss the idea is to have a more martial holy warrior along the lines of Warhammer grail knights or cold iron Magdalen knights. Weapon training and 4 feats may not be the counter balance though and I'm looking at ways to better balance the scales.

Thank you all very much for replying and giving feedback I appreciate it.

[*Thelith]

I misread the channel energy part.
I think the loss of just channel energy is enough for the weapon training and you don't need to also lose mercies.

Channel scales and is a major class feature, losing that would be equivalent to gaining weapon training as the fighter.