If you spend an action to leap as high as you can in the air, when do you start falling and when do you finish falling?
Both start and finish falling at the end of the leap action?
Start falling at the end of the action and finish falling at the end of the turn?
Or is it based on the distance from the ground when you start falling, and if so, when do you start falling?
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I’m not sure the rules give much guidance here, but my take, to encourage cool hijinks, without getting too crazy, is that you immediately start falling at the end of the action, but that your next action during the same turn can happen at the top of the jump rather than back on the ground.
This has come up in the form of a Lizardfolk PC who has Iruxi Glide and uses the Jump spell to get up into the air and then Iruxi Glide to stay there.
I think the falling/landing is part of the action for the leap.
So things like Leap and you would land at the end of the action.
For things like [url=https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=455]Water Step that can apply to multiple other actions during a round, it would be best to have the player decide which action is going to be their last move action that uses the ability. The falling would happen at the end of that action. Having it happen at the end of the turn would cause strange things like being able to walk across water and strike something before falling in. Since the falling is supposed to happen at the end of the movement, that shouldn't be allowed.
So of i were to stride off the edge off a cliff, when could i activate reactive transformation to turn into a bird?
At the end of the stride?
As soon as you fall 10 feet or more, so likely very shortly after you're trying to walk on air, yes.
So you think its likely end of the action, not turn?
Is this based on rules or is it going to be yet another gm call? (Because im getting very tired of how much of the rules arent written down)
Edit: found the wall jump feat that seems to infer you'd normally fall immediately at the end of a leap.
"You can use your momentum from a jump to propel yourself off a wall. If you’re adjacent to a wall at the end of a jump (whether performing a High Jump, Long Jump, or Leap), you don’t fall as long as your next action is another jump. "
So that answers the leaping question and would probably mean you'd immediately plummet after an action to step off a cliff. Thanks.
Yes, normally you fall immediately, not at the end of your turn. There are specific exceptions to that, like the Jump spell letting you have one action worth of hang time.
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Is this based on rules or is it going to be yet another gm call? (Because im getting very tired of how much of the rules arent written down)
Would it do any good to post a general topic responding to attitudes like this? I know I have linked to Godel's Incompleteness Theorem before. But that is some rather heavy reading and people either don't know about it, or don't understand how it relates to a game rule set like this.
I could try breaking it down and showing how it relates and what is and is not possible. But I am worried that all it is going to do is devolve into a flame war. Because people who are angry usually just want to be allowed to be angry - not proven how they are wrong.
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I think reading the Sudden Leap class feat also helps illustrate how it (as an exception) causes you to fall/land as soon as you make a strike rather than at the end of your jump/leap.
And to be honest I don't think you can attempt to jump and make an attack against a flying target without something like this.
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I’m convinced that without either a reaction or a rule specifically alllowing it, you fall immediately and can’t perform your next action “in the air.” Fortunately, since this had come up only in connection to a Lizardfolk Druid using Jump and Iruxi Glide, I wasn’t actaually running it incorrectly.
Is this based on rules or is it going to be yet another gm call? (Because im getting very tired of how much of the rules arent written down)Would it do any good to post a general topic responding to attitudes like this? I know I have linked to Godel's Incompleteness Theorem before. But that is some rather heavy reading and people either don't know about it, or don't understand how it relates to a game rule set like this.
I could try breaking it down and showing how it relates and what is and is not possible. But I am worried that all it is going to do is devolve into a flame war. Because people who are angry usually just want to be allowed to be angry - not proven how they are wrong.
Don't even try, Breit. That's called "feeding the trolls" and it never works.
There are a number of grey areas in the PF2 rules for jumping. If we didn't have the Sudden Leap feat, it wouldn't be at all clear whether or not you could jump up and hit a flying creature with no feats required. And the RAW offer no guidance on what happens when you jump or leap to a lower level than what you started from - only higher. There is no "jumping down" yardstick.
But that's what DMs are for - adjudicating corner cases. No RPG escapes such a requirement.
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Thanks to those that discussed and linked relevant feats that helped shed light on how the game works. I'm content with the answers provided.
Less thankful to those unironically suggesting I'm a troll for hoping to find rules that answer my questions, but thats to be expected I suppose.
You know, technically there's no requirement to be on the ground in order to Leap...
Dont make me thwack you with a rolled newspaper!
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I think a good rule of thumb when you find a grey area is "does this make sense in the fiction and is it dramatically satisfying?" And use that instead of sweating too much about rules minutia. PF2 did a lot to make things feel more cinematic, from feats like Sudden Leap to basic actions like Take Cover. But no rule set can cover every scenario.
The rules don't explicitly cover jumping up and grabbing onto the tail of a dragon flying above you. But it makes sense in fiction and is dramatically satisfying to do, so I would rule players get the one action's worth of "hangtime," and have them roll athletics against the dragon's reflex DC.
I would not make some kind of blanket houserule on hanging, but would adjudicate special Activities on a case-by-case basis. Thus jump and grab the tail, for example, would be an activity with an athlerics check inside of it that would resolve more like the Cling feat than like a Grapple.
I would not make some kind of blanket houserule on hanging, but would adjudicate special Activities on a case-by-case basis. Thus jump and grab the tail, for example, would be an activity with an athlerics check inside of it that would resolve more like the Cling feat than like a Grapple.
Sure, that is a good approach to take. It is also a good example of why you might not want the rules to spell out every possible interaction specifically.
Grab an Edge maybe?
Grab an Edge maybe?
That could work, yes. The reflex DC is a good baseline to use for a climb DC. This one of the best things about the universal scaling-- these things are super easy to come up with.