Hordes of enemies Cr equivalant

[Evilserran]

So the other day I was just thinking random thoughts when an idea for a paticular fun party dynamic came to mind, a bunch of ratfolks (3 hunter, 1 rogue, 1 wizard and 1 cleric) But at level 5 a total of 20 creatures to fight.

So the hunters are packmasters, with all three frats into boon companions with Riding rats. A single hunter at 5 can have 3 level 5 and a level 3 this way. Making 15 enemies already. Then the wizard's familiar can be a mauler archtype, adding two more enemies. The cleric would worship a god with the animal domain, I'm leaning towards Mazzmezz, so it can also have a riding rat companion at level 5, and then the rogue rides some one else's rat to do you know, rogue stuffs.

Now I am a fairly permissable gm, though i am not sure if i would allow my current group to roll with this as combats would bog down so much, but if they really wanted I probably would. Would you allow this shennanigan at your table? On a scale of 1-10 how annoying would this be? Would the rp aspect of being a horde of rats be more overpowering and thus enjoyable? I might also use this AGAINST my party at some point, thoughts on this?

In the same line of things, I realized there could be several other super fun themes to do the same thing, such as drow w/ spiders. Kobolds with lizards, etc. Any other fun combos that this could work with? I'm trying to avoid wolf packs as I feel that's been done to death.

Ratfolk/rats
Drow/spider
kobold/lizard
Mite/centipede
orcs/boars
Catfolk/leopard,jaguar,tiger,cheetah etc
Tengu/giant raven
grippli/goliath frog
vanara/devilmonkey or ape

[Peg'giz]

It all depends on your players. If they are the over-thinking type who think for a few minutes before making their turn it will be a mess.
If they are the one who can't get a cheap joke go by, expect a LOT of them (and not much "serious" roleplay).

On the other side:
If your players are really masters of multitasking and quick decision making, this "could" work.

I had a group of three with all pet classes (Druid, Summoner, Chevalier). It went well, because everyone layed out their roles (and rules) clearly and was quick on the decision making.
But then the Chevalier died and the player rolled a non-pet class character next.
Now combat became staggering, hence the non-pet player had to wait for the others to finisch their "double turn" and lost focus (as she only had one turn).

So be carefull with this (I think this is also the main reason the master summoner is banned from PFSP (and many tables)).

[Sysryke]

I love the idea. I love critters, and any pet class also appeals to me, but what Peg'giz said is true. This is one of those things that will very mutch depend on your table composition. Unless I've got my tactics super well locked down in my mind, I avoid bringing a pet class to the table, because most of my fellow players don't mess with them, and we are a table of 7.

If I could get everyone on board though, I'd love an everyone with a pet story. I really like the swarm idea, but I think the one that makes me giggle the most was the catfolk idea. Something about "herding cats".

This idea could also be fun with some of the demi-humans and templated familiars. I'm thinking an elemental swarm of some sort.

Shorthand, could be really fun, but it requires and all or nothing commitment from the group.

[Evilserran]

Hello' I'm Felix the Catfolk Cat herder, these are my apprentices, and our veterinarian... This? Oh thats our Herd of Cats...

[Mark Hoover 330]

I do this as a GM all the time. If you're dealing with a bunch of noob players at your table, 4 mites and a single giant centipede can be an actual fight. By the same token, if you've got 4 veteran folks running combat-optimized PCs with good strategy and tactics, 4 mites and a giant centipede are basically a speed bump.

Having critters in a fight WILL slow things down. To what degree I can't say definitively. It will depend on the experience level of the players running them. However, guaranteed that more minions under the control of the players means a noticeably longer time for rounds to get resolved.

Where I get frustrated though is when players treat their critters as one trick ponies (or war cats, or ravens, or whatever). I've got 2 players in one of my campaigns; one spent a whole feat to get a Pyrausta familiar, the other obtained special permission from me as GM to take a War Bull as a mount for his paladin.

Both rarely use their critters at all, and when they do its in a situation where the creature has virtually NO chance of being damaged at all. The war bull for example has an Int of 6, the Celestial template and layers of protection, but it only appears in order to Trample Medium or smaller sized hordes of common gnolls or orcs.

And don't get me STARTED on the Pyrausta. This thing has an Int of 8, a Perception of +10, an AC of 19, speaks Draconic, and has a Stealth of +18 along with a 60' Fly... and it never does anything except hide in one of the wizard's pockets. I'm not saying he should pull the thing out in every combat, but scouting is an option... receiving Transmutation spells is an option... heck, the thing has a 1d4 Fire damage breath weapon AND Spark at will. Even if it just bombarded with flaming oil that'd be SOMETHING.

Anyway, critters are good even if they slow down play. GM's, give some to your NPCs or monsters. Even if it's just through Handle Animal, let your minions have minions.