Construct Armor in light of recent scenarios and Bestiary 3


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Construct Armor has been subject to a fair bit of table variation regarding when broken does the hardness also go away. The consensus answer in the past was no; only the listed change to AC.

Recent scenarios, and Bestiary 3 creatures with construct armor, indicate explicitly that the hardness goes away too.

Is that enough evidence of the intent, to get a campaign leadership ruling that the old scenarios/B1/B2 creatures with construct armor should be run with the Bestiary 3 version of the rules? To avoid table variation or arguments about Run as Written.

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I'm not sure it's accurate to say that there was ever a consensus on Construct Armor. It's always been kind of ambiguous, since the ability did not explicitly say to remove hardness, but was written in a way that implied that the hardness was part of construct armor and would therefore be lost when it was broken.

I've seen separate readings the whole time, made in good faith by people trying to run the ability as written.

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I got the sense that what the armor removed was somewhat creature dependent.

So something with a hard armored shell, but delicate internals, the hardness goes away, where as something where it is the same material through and through, the hardness stays.

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Eric Nielsen wrote:


Is that enough evidence of the intent, to get a campaign leadership ruling that the old scenarios/B1/B2 creatures with construct armor should be run with the Bestiary 3 version of the rules? To avoid table variation or arguments about Run as Written.

It would need to be a Developer ruling, not a campaign leadership ruling. This is a core rules issue, not a PFS rules issue.

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Jared Thaler - Personal Opinion wrote:

I got the sense that what the armor removed was somewhat creature dependent.

So something with a hard armored shell, but delicate internals, the hardness goes away, where as something where it is the same material through and through, the hardness stays.

I dont think this is actually the case. Looking at the animated silverware, animated furnace, or animated colossus from Bestiary 3, none of them have got delicate internals. The only pattern I see looking at creatures with Construct Armor is date of publication, not really physical description.

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Removing the hardness as well as the extra AC is how I've been GMing it. Almost every time its come up when I was a player the GM has told me I was wrong though.

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Oh wow I never considered the concept of leaving hardness intact.

Sure, the statblock lists hardness, but it's granted by the Construct Armor ability. Saying it remains is like saying a creature can still attack with its fists after its arms have been severed, because "fist" is in the statblock.

And this explains why my last session of a certain Repeatable Quest nearly resulted in a TPK. I kept thinking "this thing's armor *has* to be broken by now", and then it dropped, with only a single PC left standing.

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Removing the hardness is accurate, so we changed the ability in Bestiary 3 to make that more obvious. It's on the list for potential Bestiary 1 errata as well.

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This might need a bit more public call-out as I know of quite a few PFS GMs who will be surprised to hear that construct hardness is supposed to go away once it reaches the broken condition.

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We've been try to spread the word!

I ran it as removing hardness originally, and was told that was wrong by many, many people. So I'm glad to know its supposed to be removed.

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Mark Seifter wrote:
Removing the hardness is accurate, so we changed the ability in Bestiary 3 to make that more obvious. It's on the list for potential Bestiary 1 errata as well.

Bookmarked!

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Mark Seifter wrote:
Removing the hardness is accurate, so we changed the ability in Bestiary 3 to make that more obvious. It's on the list for potential Bestiary 1 errata as well.

Good to know.

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