| Arcasus |
so the toxicant reads at 1st level, a toxicant has learned to mimic creatures with the ability to secrete harmful toxins through the skin. Once per day, in a process that takes 10 minutes, the toxicant can create and imbibe a tincture that causes her skin to secrete a mild toxin. The toxicant is immune to this secretion, but any creature that hits her with a natural attack or unarmed strike must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC = 10 + 1/2 the toxicant’s alchemist level + the toxicant’s Intelligence modifier). On a failed save, the target takes an amount of damage equal to the toxicant’s Intelligence modifier. At 4th level, a target that fails its save must succeed at a second save 1 round later or take the same amount of damage again. This effect repeats as long as the target continues to fail its saving throws, to a maximum number of rounds equal to 1 + 1 for every 4 alchemist levels the toxicant possesses (to a maximum of 6 rounds at 20th level).
At 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter, the toxicant can choose a condition to have her toxin impose.
Once this choice is made, it can’t be changed. A creature that fails its save against the toxic secretion also gains these conditions until it succeeds at a save against the secretion, or until the toxin’s duration ends.
At higher alchemist levels, the toxicant gains access to stronger conditions; some replace lower-level conditions, which must be selected first. The following conditions are available at the given alchemist levels: 3rd—bleed (1d6), dazzled, fatigued, or sickened; 6th—dazed or shaken; 9th—blinded (replaces dazzled) or staggered (replaces dazed); 12th—exhausted (replaces fatigued); 18th—stunned (replaces exhausted and staggered).
my player chose bleed
so woudl it be a 1d6+3 damge when they fail the posion then they bleed for 1d6 until they heal or use a heal check. By rules of bleed they would take the bleed damage on there turn only? The description says on a failed save the target takes the bleed amount. a little confused by this.
Also the alchemist is a gun chemist mixed with a toxicant and it feels like this class is doing major damage at level 3. Maybe we are over looking the rules or misreading something.
Firebug
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A creature that fails its save against the toxic secretion also gains these conditions until it succeeds at a save against the secretion, or until the toxin’s duration ends.
This is telling you the bleed(or other condition) ends on a successful save or when the duration runs out.
Bleed: A creature that is taking bleed damage takes the listed amount of damage at the beginning of its turn. Bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or through the application of any spell that cures hit point damage (even if the bleed is ability damage). Some bleed effects cause ability damage or even ability drain. Bleed effects do not stack with each other unless they deal different kinds of damage. When two or more bleed effects deal the same kind of damage, take the worse effect. In this case, ability drain is worse than ability damage.
So, Toxicant creates and imbibes the tincture.
Later in the day, a crab decides to pinch them, and hits.Crab needs to make a fort save, on a failure they take 3 damage and gain 1d6 bleed but take no damage from the bleed effect. Max Duration of the poison is 1 round + 1 per 4 levels, so currently 1 round.
Start of the Crabs next turn it actually takes the 1d6 bleed damage.
If the Toxicant is currently level 3, that's it. Duration over, don't need to save again.
If the Toxicant is level 4, save vs poison again. If the Crab Fails its second save it takes 3 damage and 1d6 bleed.
Bleed damage typically doesn't stack, but sort of overlaps.
Crab starts it's turn again and rolls 1d6 twice take the highest for the bleed.
It gets a little more complicated when the crab is attacking the Toxicant multiple times a round and failing the save multiple times, because then you need to get into the poison stacking rules.
| Arcasus |
Arcasus wrote:A creature that fails its save against the toxic secretion also gains these conditions until it succeeds at a save against the secretion, or until the toxin’s duration ends.This is telling you the bleed(or other condition) ends on a successful save or when the duration runs out.
Bleed Condition wrote:Bleed: A creature that is taking bleed damage takes the listed amount of damage at the beginning of its turn. Bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or through the application of any spell that cures hit point damage (even if the bleed is ability damage). Some bleed effects cause ability damage or even ability drain. Bleed effects do not stack with each other unless they deal different kinds of damage. When two or more bleed effects deal the same kind of damage, take the worse effect. In this case, ability drain is worse than ability damage.So, Toxicant creates and imbibes the tincture.
Later in the day, a crab decides to pinch them, and hits.
Crab needs to make a fort save, on a failure they take 3 damage and gain 1d6 bleed but take no damage from the bleed effect. Max Duration of the poison is 1 round + 1 per 4 levels, so currently 1 round.
Start of the Crabs next turn it actually takes the 1d6 bleed damage.
If the Toxicant is currently level 3, that's it. Duration over, don't need to save again.
If the Toxicant is level 4, save vs poison again. If the Crab Fails its second save it takes 3 damage and 1d6 bleed.
Bleed damage typically doesn't stack, but sort of overlaps.
Crab starts it's turn again and rolls 1d6 twice take the highest for the bleed.It gets a little more complicated when the crab is attacking the Toxicant multiple times a round and failing the save multiple times, because then you need to get into the poison stacking rules.
If the crabbed attacked twice it wouldnt be stacking the bleed damage it would then be upping the dc by two correct?
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Firebug
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Overlap, not stack. Roll twice, take highest. "Take the worse effect" from bleed.
Assuming the Crab failed the fort save twice in the same turn.
Each additional dose extends the total duration of the poison (as noted under frequency) by half its total duration. In addition, each dose of poison increases the DC to resist the poison by +2. This increase is cumulative. Multiple doses do not alter the cure conditions of the poison, and meeting these conditions ends the affliction for all the doses.
For this example, Toxicant is level 3, and 16 Int.
So crab attacks and fails the first DC 14 fort save, and takes 3 damage. It also gains the condition Bleed(1d6).The crab attacks a second time and fails the DC 16 fort save and takes 3 damage. It gains the condition Bleed(1d6) again.
On the crab's next turn it rolls the bleed twice and takes the highest.
Since half of the duration of 1 round isn't enough for a full extra round, round down to no extra rounds. If the crab had failed 3 fort saves, then there would be an extra round (50% duration twice, double the 1 round duration to 2 rounds).