The Familiar Master Dedication gives you the Enhanced Familiar feat if you already have a familiar. The dedication has Enhanced Familiar as an additional feat at 4th level. If you have a familiar and get the feat for 'free', does it count towards the two feats required before selecting another dedication?
You can't select another dedication feat until you have gained two other feats from the familiar master archetype.
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No, this does not circumvent having to select two more archetype feats. Think if it more as "You need to spend two more class feats on this archetype before choosing another archetype."
I agree with the RAI of this, but RAW is pretty clear in that you only need 2 feats gained from the archetype choice to select another dedication feat, and it doesn't matter where the source of those feats come from.
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I agree with the RAI of this, but RAW is pretty clear in that you only need 2 feats gained from the archetype choice to select another dedication feat, and it doesn't matter where the source of those feats come from.
I disagree. I say that RAW is that Enhanced Familiar is not an OTHER feats from that archetype but part of the Dedication feat.
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I agree with the RAI of this, but RAW is pretty clear in that you only need 2 feats gained from the archetype choice to select another dedication feat, and it doesn't matter where the source of those feats come from.I disagree. I say that RAW is that Enhanced Familiar is not an OTHER feats from that archetype but part of the Dedication feat.
The problem is that it's technically both, which creates a weird paradigm shift depending on how/when you acquire the dedication.
If you don't already possess a familiar, the dedication gives you one with the option to Enhance it at 4th level onward. If you already possess a familiar, the dedication gives you the Enhance feat, locking you out from selecting it at 4th level onward because it is not a feat you can select multiple times.
The question is whether the bonus feat from the dedication counts as one of the archetype's feats, and I would say it does, as it is one of the feats the Archetype grants access to, and simply already possessing it from the Archetype doesn't mean it ceases to be that way.
I agree with the RAI of this, but RAW is pretty clear in that you only need 2 feats gained from the archetype choice to select another dedication feat, and it doesn't matter where the source of those feats come from.I disagree. I say that RAW is that Enhanced Familiar is not an OTHER feats from that archetype but part of the Dedication feat.
I agree with Darksol: nothing prevents the bonus feat from counting as an other feat.
I don't know if this is relevant, but other 'free' feats given out by dedications are typically not part of the archetype and actually specifies where the feat comes from, so the issue doesn't come up. For instance, the Duelist dedication gives out Quick Draw and specifies it as a ranger feat.
Familiar Master is the only one I've seen so far that gives you a feat that's also part of the archetype, so it stuck out. Oddly enough, it doesn't specify which class the feat originates from unlike the others. It just says "you gain the Enhanced Familiar feat." Is it referring to the archetype feat version then since it wouldn't have a class trait? I don't know, and I'm still unsure what it would mean if it does.
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I don't know if this is relevant, but other 'free' feats given out by dedications are typically not part of the archetype and actually specifies where the feat comes from, so the issue doesn't come up. For instance, the Duelist dedication gives out Quick Draw and specifies it as a ranger feat.
Familiar Master is the only one I've seen so far that gives you a feat that's also part of the archetype, so it stuck out. Oddly enough, it doesn't specify which class the feat originates from unlike the others. It just says "you gain the Enhanced Familiar feat." Is it referring to the archetype feat version then since it wouldn't have a class trait? I don't know, and I'm still unsure what it would mean if it does.
To a point, it is. The thing is that those free feats they give aren't also options to select as they gain levels. (It would make no sense for them to be here, since anyone getting the dedication gets that feat regardless of outside circumstances.)
Dual-Weapon Warrior, for example, doesn't say you get Double Slice if you are proficient in Martial weapons, as the feat being granted isn't conditional on whether you are proficient or not, and as such would make no sense to include as a level-up dedication option. Familiar Master's Enhanced Familiar, on the other hand, is expressly conditional, as you acquire it for free if you already have a Familiar from another source, whereas if you didn't have one, you don't get the feat.
It could be argued that the precedent is from another class, meaning it doesn't technically count as an "other" feat, but the fact I can't then take it as a feat later if I already possess it from the archetype means the source technically doesn't matter.
There is also the fact that the initial feat does have the Archetype trait, whereas the Level 4 Feat option does not (and the other Familiar Master feats have them), meaning technically speaking, selecting it does not count as one of your 2 required feats to select another Dedication feat, since it lacks the Archetype trait. (Could be a typo in this case, but RAW it works this way.)
Here's the entry for Additional Feats for Archetypes.
Some archetypes allow other feats beyond those in their entry. These are typically class feats, such as fighter feats that represent certain combat styles. The list of additional feats includes the feat's name, its level, and the page number where it appears. You can take the feat as an archetype feat of that level, meaning it counts toward the number of feats required by the archetype's dedication feat. When selected this way, a feat that normally has a class trait doesn't have that class trait.
All of the additional feats in archetypes count as an archetype feat when taken. Also, the omission of the class trait for these feats makes me think how they worded how you gain Enhanced Familiar from the dedication might be deliberate.
You have forged a mystical bond with a creature. This might have involved complex rituals and invocations, such as meditating under the moon until something crept out of the forest. Or maybe you just did each other a good turn, such as rescuing the beast from a trap or a foe, and then being rescued in turn. Whatever the details, you are now comrades until the end. You gain a familiar. If you already have a familiar, you gain the Enhanced Familiar feat.
While this doesn't say much about the issue directly, I think it at least means the Enhanced Familiar feat you gain from the dedication is the specific 4th level archetype feat and not a class feat. The example feats gained in previous posts, Quick Draw and Double Slice, are given out as class feats despite being given out by an archetype dedication. As written, the only exception seems to be Enhanced Familiar under this dedication.
Edit: Several archetypes also give out skill feats, but it still stands that feats given out like this are typically singled out as either a class or skill feat. Familiar Master's Enhanced Familiar is the only one I've seen that isn't.
That's interesting but unfortunate because if any bonus feat's type needed to be defined, it would be this one. If Enhanced Familiar was classified as the wizard feat (or any of other appropriate classes) or as the archetype feat, it would be clear on which way it would work. Probably an errata candidate in the future.
What if an alchemist took Alchemical Familiar and then Familiar Master?
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What if an alchemist took Alchemical Familiar and then Familiar Master?
It would function as if any other class possessed a Familiar prior to the feat: They'd get the Enhanced Familiar feat.
What if an alchemist took Alchemical Familiar and then Familiar Master?It would function as if any other class possessed a Familiar prior to the feat: They'd get the Enhanced Familiar feat.
At which point it would have to be from the archetype as the alchemist doesn’t have an enhanced version, correct? And if so, doesn’t that further indicate that one is getting the dedication feat plus the enhanced familiar archetype feat simultaneously making it essentially two for one? It just seems like that further proves your point.
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At which point it would have to be from the archetype as the alchemist doesn’t have an enhanced version, correct? And if so, doesn’t that further indicate that one is getting the dedication feat plus the enhanced familiar archetype feat simultaneously making it essentially two for one? It just seems like that further proves your point.What if an alchemist took Alchemical Familiar and then Familiar Master?It would function as if any other class possessed a Familiar prior to the feat: They'd get the Enhanced Familiar feat.
Pretty much.
This combo works so long as you possess a Familiar prior to taking the dedication.
RAW is pretty clear. It's hard to say whether this is RAI or not, but for it to match, errata is needed.
