The Ecclesitheurge archetype gets a Bonded Holy Symbol:
Bonded Holy Symbol (Su)
At 3rd level, an ecclesitheurge forms a powerful bond with a holy symbol of his deity, which functions identically to a wizard’s bonded object except it can be used to cast cleric and domain spells (instead of wizard spells) and the ecclesitheurge can grant his bonded holy symbol only magic abilities appropriate for a holy symbol or a neck slot item. As with a wizard’s bonded item, an ecclesitheurge can add additional magic abilities to his bonded holy symbol as if he had the required item creation feat (typically Craft Wondrous Item), provided he meets the feat’s level prerequisites. For example, an ecclesitheurge with a bonded holy symbol who wants to add a wondrous amulet ability, like amulet of natural armor, to his bonded holy symbol must be at least 3rd level to do so. The magic properties of a bonded holy symbol, including any magic abilities the ecclesitheurge added to the object, function for only the ecclesitheurge. If a bonded holy symbol’s owner dies or the item is replaced, the object loses all enhancements the ecclesitheurge added using this ability.This ability replaces the increase to channel energy gained at 3rd level.
If I were to find someone that could make my weapon into a Reliquary Holy Symbol, can I then use Craft Magic Arms and Armor to enchant my Bonded Holy Symbol?
I am hoping to take a few crafting feats anyway, but not all at low levels. This would really help in the lower levels.
Yes, you can. As the text says, the Bonded Holy Symbol works exactly like a Wizard's Bonded Item, except for the change to cleric/domain spells and the appropriateness of the holy symbol (or neck slot).
This part is also relevant:
If a bonded object is damaged, it is restored to full hit points the next time the wizard prepares his spells. If the object of an arcane bond is lost or destroyed, it can be replaced after 1 week in a special ritual that costs 200 gp per wizard level plus the cost of the masterwork item. This ritual takes 8 hours to complete. Items replaced in this way do not possess any of the additional enchantments of the previous bonded item. A wizard can designate an existing magic item as his bonded item. This functions in the same way as replacing a lost or destroyed item except that the new magic item retains its abilities while gaining the benefits and drawbacks of becoming a bonded item.
So you can designate an existing magic item as your bonded item as well. That means you can also use a Channel Focus as bonded item -- it has to be enchanted with something though, so it counts as a magic item.
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I'd allow it.
Most published Pathfinder material (including this archetype) tends to assume that a holy symbol is something worn around the neck or that you can tuck away in a pocket then pull out and hold in your hand when you want to use it. But there are several items like Cassock of the Clergy that function as a holy symbol. Create Reliquary Arms and Armor would make the weapon a holy symbol, so it should work as well.
I would say that you would either need to have the item before 3rd level or pay to swap items. You don't get a choice about waiting to bond the holy symbol, you have to do it when you hit 3rd level.
I'd guess you'd then be treated as if you had the Inscribe Magical Tattoo item creation feed and you could improve your magic tattoos.
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Bonded Holy Symbol (Su)
... and the ecclesitheurge can grant his bonded holy symbol only magic abilities appropriate for a holy symbol or a neck slot item.
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So, you are limited to what can be cast on a neck slot item or a holy symbol. You can give it the powers of an amulet of Mighty fist or one of Natural Armor, but you can't give it a weapon enhancement.
You can enchant it with powers from most of the Wondrous items, but none of the weapon powers (unless they are appropriate for holy symbols).
BTW, the weapon needs to already be a magical weapon, so I don't see how it will be advantageous at low levels:
Create Reliquary Arms and Shields
Your magical creations are infused with divine power.
Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, ability to cast consecrate or desecrate.
Benefit: When you craft a magic weapon, magic armor, or magic shield, you may add one casting of consecrate or desecrate as part of the item crafting process. This increases the item’s price by 250 gp.
The item becomes a reliquary and can be used as a holy (or unholy) symbol divine focus of your deity. If you cast consecrate or desecrate, your reliquary counts as a permanent fixture for that spell while it remains in the spell’s area.
You end paying a surcharge to enchant the weapon with the amulet powers and/or when you improve it as a weapon.
It seems costly at low levels.- * - * -
You can ask your GM if will allow you to change the ability so that it says:
"and the ecclesitheurge can grant his bonded holy symbol only magic abilities appropriate for a holy symbol or a weapon."
but that will require an appropriate deity with a martial bent (like Gorum), and an ecclesitheurge of a martial deity seems inappropriate.
Even permitting it, it will be a permanent change to the archetype.
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I'd allow it.
Most published Pathfinder material (including this archetype) tends to assume that a holy symbol is something worn around the neck or that you can tuck away in a pocket then pull out and hold in your hand when you want to use it. But there are several items like Cassock of the Clergy that function as a holy symbol. Create Reliquary Arms and Armor would make the weapon a holy symbol, so it should work as well.
I would say that you would either need to have the item before 3rd level or pay to swap items. You don't get a choice about waiting to bond the holy symbol, you have to do it when you hit 3rd level.
An ecclesitheurge has a limited selection of know weapons and doesn't know how to use armor. I think that the limitation to " abilities appropriate for a holy symbol or a neck slot item" is part of that list of changes the archetype made, not simply an assumption on the part of the author of the archetype.
You can enchant it with powers from most of the Wondrous items, but none of the weapon powers (unless they are appropriate for holy symbols).
I see your point, but what does this mean exactly? I have never seen specific enchantments for holy symbols....
Also about the weapon needing to be magical already: would that maybe be solved by making it a Channel Focus weapon before it becomes a Bonded Holy Symbol?
I see your point, but what does this mean exactly? I have never seen specific enchantments for holy symbols....
Also about the weapon needing to be magical already: would that maybe be solved by making it a Channel Focus weapon before it becomes a Bonded Holy Symbol?
As I have shown above, a Channel Focus is not automatically magical:
An activated channel focus radiates faint conjuration (positive energy) or necromancy magic (negative energy). An unactivated focus is completely nonmagical — it is a channel for the magical positive or negative energy, but has no magic of its own.
But as soon as you have even a mere +1 enchantment on it, it is considered magical. It doesn't have to be a permanent enchantment, even a +1 from a Greater Magic Weapon spell, that lasts at least 24h is enough. The item only needs to be magical at the moment when it is designated as a Bonded Item.
Appropriate for a holy symbol is not quite clear in its meaning. It can be interpreted as "appropriate for the item type" or as "appropriate for the religion" (or as both). It is more likely to mean the item type, since the neck slot is mentioned in the text next. However, holy symbols don't have a magic item slot, they are usually wielded in a hand (not a weapon though) or worn (around the neck).
Whatever it specifically means, I'd be surprised if a cleric of Iomedae or Erastil couldn't use a longsword or bow as bonded holy symbol.
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I see your point, but what does this mean exactly? I have never seen specific enchantments for holy symbols....
Also about the weapon needing to be magical already: would that maybe be solved by making it a Channel Focus weapon before it becomes a Bonded Holy Symbol?
As I have shown above, a Channel Focus is not automatically magical:
An activated channel focus radiates faint conjuration (positive energy) or necromancy magic (negative energy). An unactivated focus is completely nonmagical — it is a channel for the magical positive or negative energy, but has no magic of its own.But as soon as you have even a mere +1 enchantment on it, it is considered magical. It doesn't have to be a permanent enchantment, even a +1 from a Greater Magic Weapon spell, that lasts at least 24h is enough. The item only needs to be magical at the moment when it is designated as a Bonded Item.
Appropriate for a holy symbol is not quite clear in its meaning. It can be interpreted as "appropriate for the item type" or as "appropriate for the religion" (or as both). It is more likely to mean the item type, since the neck slot is mentioned in the text next. However, holy symbols don't have a magic item slot, they are usually wielded in a hand (not a weapon though) or worn (around the neck).
The Channel foci are separated from the holy symbols, even if they incorporate a holy symbol. I am not completely convinced that they can substitute for the holy symbol used as a spell focus.
Their text says that they work in a specific way, different from how a holy symbol normally works. As an example channel energy says:"Regardless of alignment, any cleric can release a wave of energy by channeling the power of her faith through her holy (or unholy) symbol. This energy can be used to cause or heal damage, depending on the type of energy channeled and the creatures targeted.", but when you use the Channel Foci you get: "Activating a focus is identical to channeling energy, but instead of directing the power outward, the cleric (or other appropriate character) directs it into the focus, expending one use of channel energy. This triggers the item’s ability; the channel does not have any of its normal effects (for example, a cleric channeling positive energy through her focus would not heal living creatures or harm undead in the area). "
It continues with "he can still use channel energy in the normal way, even while wearing or holding a channel focus.", but it never says that the cleric can use the Channel foci to use channel energy the normal way.
It is a GM decision if it works both ways.
Whatever it specifically means, I'd be surprised if a cleric of Iomedae or Erastil couldn't use a longsword or bow as bonded holy symbol.
Certainly.
The problem is with the ecclesitheurge archetype. He is a kind of cleric more focused on spells and with less martial capacities.He loses his spells if wearing armour, and knows a very limited selection of weapons.
He loses the proficiency with his deity favoured weapon, too, as that is part of the class Weapon and armor Proficiency replaced by the Archetype Weapon and Armor Proficiency.
While I don't think there is a specific rule about that, I would require a cleric to take archetypes that mesh well with the deity tenets.
BTW, assuming the existence of an archetype with a martial bent that gets the bonded holy symbol, I would have no problem with him bonding a weapon and enchanting it with weapon abilities (but not neck slot item abilities).
Simply, this kind of stuff is more something that the GM should decide after speaking with the player than a game rules discussion.