| Vodoff |
Question is: when using AToM to make magic items, do you need to have the corresponding item creation feats (like craft wondrous)? Or does the item allow you to bypass this feat-tax?
I haven't done any item-creation in PF1e but from previous threads it is unanimous that AToM can be used to create magic items. RAW/ RAI answers are preferable, please don't say "DM Fiat"
Diego Rossi
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Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created.
Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
The crafting feat is mandatory. You need an explicit permission in the item description to bypass it, and the Amazing Tools of Manufacture don't have it.
Actually, the Tools don't say anything about making magical items.
Amazing Tools of Manufacture
Source Advanced Race Guide pg. 37
Aura faint transmutation; CL 3rd
Slot none; Price 12,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.
Description
Tools of this type always appear to be of the highest quality and wrought of the finest materials, most often mithral, darkwood, and adamantine. In the hands of a casual wielder, these items simply appear to be magically enhanced masterwork tools for a specific Craft skill (determined randomly), granting a +4 circumstance bonus on such skill checks.However, in the hands of a craftsman with 6 or more ranks in the selected Craft skill, the greater power of the amazing tools of manufacture becomes apparent. The wielder may use the tools to create items using the Craft skill much more surely and quickly. The wielder may take raw materials with a value equal to half the price of an object to be crafted, and produce a finished object in as little as 1 hour for an item with a final cost of 2,000 gp or less. For objects with a final cost of more than 2,000 gp, the wielder can perform 2,000 gp worth of work in a single hour, but only once each day. Only a single skill check is required to successfully complete the item, made on the last day of crafting and gaining the +4 circumstance bonus granted by the tools.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, Master Craftsman; Cost 6,000 gp
As written, you can use them to speed up the enchanting of a magic item if you use the selected Craft skill to make it. But nothing more. You still need the feat.
Even saying that in speed up enchanting is questionable, as the magical supplies used to enchant the item aren't used to craft it. The item is crafted separately from the enchanting process.
| dr. kekyll |
All feats that allow someone to "enchant" items are called "Craft _____." I'm not aware of anywhere the rules draw a distinction between "enchanting" an item and "crafting" a magic item. I would say making that distinction is something of a houserule. Certainly a reasonable thing for a GM to do, but enchanting an item is crafting as far as the rules are concerned.
To be clear, they are absolutely two different crafting processes in the rules, but they are both "crafting."
| zza ni |
nothing in the item information mention crafting magic items. as such you can make mundane items faster (build a boat faster. or admantium heavy armor in less then a few years).
to point out it say 'create items using the craft skill'. not 'craft magic items using the craft X feat'.
even if you could use them while crafting magic item to make it faster, it still say nothing about removing the need for the feats. (of course to make mundane items with the skill, you only need the skill ranks, no feats)
| Java Man |
All feats that allow someone to "enchant" items are called "Craft _____."
Brew Potion, Scribe Scroll, Forge Ring.
Edit: a quick scan of the Feat and Magic Item chapters of the CRB and I see the words "create" and "creation" being used to discuss the production of magic items, but not the words "craft" or "enchant"
Diego Rossi
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All feats that allow someone to "enchant" items are called "Craft _____." I'm not aware of anywhere the rules draw a distinction between "enchanting" an item and "crafting" a magic item. I would say making that distinction is something of a houserule. Certainly a reasonable thing for a GM to do, but enchanting an item is crafting as far as the rules are concerned.
To be clear, they are absolutely two different crafting processes in the rules, but they are both "crafting."
MAGIC ITEM CREATION
To create magic items, spellcasters use special feats which allow them to invest time and money in an item’s creation.
...
The DC to create a magic item is 5 + the caster level for the item.
...
etc.
From what I see it is always "create" in that section. Enchant is a generic term, but it is wrong if we want to be precise.
Creating Magic Armor
To create magic armor, a character needs a heat source and some iron, wood, or leatherworking tools.
....
Crafting magic armor requires one day for each 1,000 gp value of the base price.
...
Creating Magic Weapons
To create a magic weapon, a character needs a heat source and some iron, wood, or leatherworking tools.
...
Crafting a magic weapon requires 1 day for each 1,000 gp value of the base price.
...
Creating Potions
The creator of a potion needs a level working surface and at least a few containers in which to mix liquids, as well as a source of heat to boil the brew.
...
Brewing a potion requires 1 day.
...
Creating Rings
To create a magic ring, a character needs a heat source.
...
Forging a ring requires 1 day for each 1,000 gp of the base price.
...
Creating Rods
To create a magic rod, a character needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being a rod or the pieces of the rod to be assembled.
...
Crafting a rod requires 1 day for each 1,000 gp of the base price.
...
Creating Scrolls
To create a scroll, a character needs a supply of choice writing materials, the cost of which is subsumed in the cost for scribing the scroll: 12.5 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster.
...
Scribing a scroll requires 1 day per 1,000 gp of the base price.
...
Creating Staves
To create a magic staff, a character needs a supply of materials, the most obvious being a staff or the pieces of the staff to be assembled.
...
Crafting a staff requires 1 day for each 1,000 gp of the base price.
...
Creating Wands
To create a magic wand, a character needs a small supply of materials, the most obvious being a baton or the pieces of the wand to be assembled.
...
Crafting a wand requires 1 day per each 1,000 gp of the base price.
...
Creating Wondrous Items
To create a wondrous item, a character usually needs some sort of equipment or tools to work on the item.
...
Crafting a wondrous item requires 1 day for each 1,000 gp of the base price.
A mixed bag, each paragraph use "to create a ...", but several ends with "Crafting ...", so the nomenclature isn't so coherent.
The feats work the same way.Good enough to say that you can use the Tools to work fewer hours every day, if you use the appropriate craft skill to create a magic item, but they don't cover the need for the feat, as that is a specific requirement.
The main drawback is if you don't use the appropriate craft skill you can't benefit from the Tools.
Even constantly using the tools, at best you can advance by 3,000 gp in a day when making a magic item. 2,000 in 1 hour with the use of the Tools, 1,000 in 4 hours while working a double speed and taking the +5 DC for the whole project. That way you work a total of 5 hours.
As you can't exceed the 8 hours of work in a day when creating magic items, that is the best you can get.
| dr. kekyll |
I was only pointing out that the two major feats (I should not have said all, but I was being hyperbolic) are called Craft Wondrous Item and Craft Magic Arms and Armor, they can be done with craft skills, and nowhere in the rules does it explicitly call out that creating magic items isn't "crafting."
Creating magic items is crafting. I agree with you that the tools don't mitigate need for the feats and that you'd still need to be using the appropriate crafting skill to benefit. I only took contention with the claim that the rules say creating magic items isn't crafting. They don't.