Hello!
I'm trying to figure out how double slice works after a character already struck once.
If I understood correctly, in this situation, a character wielding 2 agile weapons would have a -4/-4 penalty to their strikes, whereas a character with 2 non-agile weapons would have a -5/-7 penalty instead.
That being said, I'm having a hard time figuring out how to apply the penalty for a combination of non-agile and agile weapons. I would assume that the penalties would be a -5 for the non-agile and -4 for the agile weapon.
However, the feat says "Make two Strikes, one with each of your two melee weapons, each using your current multiple attack penalty". This makes me wonder if the penalties for a combination of non-agile and agile weapon strikes should be -5/-5 instead, since we are supposed to use the current multiple attack penalty for both strikes, which is -5.
What is the correct interpretation and why?
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You need to think of MAP as something that is independent from the specific weapon.
Always calculate your multiple attack penalty for the weapon you’re using on that attack.
So on a turn a PC makes a Strike. Regardless of what weapon was used in that specific strike and what the result was, this PC is now at MAP1.
As their next action the PC goes to make a second Strike. Now this PC has a longsword in one hand and a short sword in the other. As this is the second attack for the round, if the PC uses the short sword (an agile weapon) the attack is at -4. If they use the Longsword MAP is -5.
As their third action, this same PC takes a third Strike. If they use their longsword it is at -10 and if they use the short sword it is at -8.
Notice how I never refer to the prior attack to determine MAP. If your round is longsword (LS)/LS/Short sword (SS), your attacks are at -0/-5/-8. If it is SS/LS/LS its -0/-5/-10. LS/SS/LS -0/-4/-10.
For your specific question. If you make one strike, regardless of the weapon and then use Double Slice, both strikes are at MAP1. If you have one Non-Agile weapon (N) and one Agile weapon (A), your multi attack penalty depends on the order of the strikes WITHIN DoublSlice (this is the exception to the above rule).
If the attack is N/A then the MAP is -5/-4. If it is A/N then MAP is -4/-7. Notice again it does not matter what you used for your initial Strike. The only questions are 1) what is MAP for this action; 2) is the individual weapon agile or not; and 3) is the second strike from Double Slice done with an Agile weapon.
TLDR; If your attack in Double Slice is non-agile weapon then agile weapon, MAP in this circumstance is -5/-4.
You need to think of MAP as something that is independent from the specific weapon.
Always calculate your multiple attack penalty for the weapon you’re using on that attack.For your specific question. If you make one strike, regardless of the weapon and then use Double Slice, both strikes are at MAP1. If you have one Non-Agile weapon (N) and one Agile weapon (A), your multi attack penalty depends on the order of the strikes WITHIN DoublSlice (this is the exception to the above rule).
If the attack is N/A then the MAP is -5/-4. If it is A/N then MAP is -4/-7. Notice again it does not matter what you used for your initial Strike. The only questions are 1) what is MAP for this action; 2) is the individual weapon agile or not; and 3) is the second strike from Double Slice done with an Agile weapon.
TLDR; If your attack in Double Slice is non-agile weapon then agile weapon, MAP in this circumstance is -5/-4.
Great explanation. Thank you very much.
Great explanation. Thank you very much.
If you think about it from an RAI standpoint, an Agile weapon is lighter and thus it is easier to take that second swing with it. The fact that the weapon in your other hand isn't doesn't change that fact.
Great explanation. Thank you very much.If you think about it from an RAI standpoint, an Agile weapon is lighter and thus it is easier to take that second swing with it. The fact that the weapon in your other hand isn't doesn't change that fact.
Yeah, sure. Thanks. I tend to lean towards RAW over RAI though. I feel like it's more objective and practical. Of course, It's great when both RAW and RAI work with one another.
Anyway, your first explanation was spot on and made me think about the weapons separately, which helped me better understand the these particular rules. Thanks again!