I'd be very concerned about his damage too. I have no advice other than to raise your Dex dude.
Why dump ex, especially for the zen archer? His con and wisdom will be high, charisma low, int mid to low, str depending on build...but dex dump? Doesn't make sense to me. You lose out on too much for it to be beneficial. Either way...
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To make it work, best way I see it, is get a guided enhanced bow. The guided (guide) allows you to use your wisdom for str when applicable. Since composite bows use str for their damage, this would change it to wisdom. So now you don't need a high str, just a 10 or so so your not encumbered by small weight.
So, wisdom for your atk and damage now. No longer need str to be high, dump charisma.
Wisdom>Con>Int> str> cha=dex dump
No need for combat reflexes, so pick up another feat. Zen archers get weapon specialization for free. Just pump your wisdom to get more damage.
Hammer the gap will be your savior somewhat. It will give a +1 cumulative damage for every previous attack that hit. AoMF you have 6 attacks, that's 1(after the first attack, added to second...continue)+1 each additional... For 5+4+3+2+1= +15 damage for the round. 15 damage / across 6 attacks= averages 2.5 extra damage per attack, that's better than weapon specialization.
Also, just an idea, the feat big game hunter, will provide a bonus to attack and damage for you when you attack large or larger enemies.
Bracers of archery greater will give a damage bump as well.
So, at 11th level your damage could be, across 5 attacks ( up to 7 if hated and using ki for extra attack):
1d8 + 2 (bow) + weapon specialization 2 + 1 bracers of archery + (+1 for each attack after first, cumulative that hits) + wisdom modifier ( base 16 + 2 from levels +4 item=+22 wisdom, modifier +6) +6=. 1d8 + 11 (+1 for each attack that hits after first, cumulative)
At minimum 5 attacks, that's 5d8+ 55... Avg damage/round= 77.5 damage
Now, if you didn't dump dex, your damage would jump way up to +17 per attack, for 5d8+85 for damage in the round. Avg= 107.5 /round
As I understood it with Hammer the Gap, if you miss it starts over. So you hit with the first two shots, then the rest miss, you get 1 point of damage, and often nothing against anything with a high AC that's dangerous.
I'm trying to dump dex because I wanted to make an old man.
Thanks for the tip about being able to dump strength. I didn't know about the guided enhancement.
Correct, however high AC will only be an issue for the later attacks. Also, since hammer the gap is iffy on when it works and how, only the sohei and zen archer really get to use it to a high potential. No other classes get over 7 attacks for a full round action, and the more attacks you have the higher your damage, of which it also multiples on a crit. Hammer the gap for this build is somewhat essential. Without it, you do a lot less damage, which btw I never factored in. Avg damage for the round, If all attacks hit, is 82.5 for first example, 122.5 for second.
Since your dumping dex, which btw, for an old guy you could have the low str represent that and his dex could be below avg for an archer, say a 13, which wouldn't you know it, is exactly what you need for deadly aim. :)
Otherwise, your damage will be as I showed with a little room to fluctuate as is.
Got ya, thanks.
No wonder I didn't see guided. It isn't core, so it is right out. I can't use it.
I thought it sounded a little powerful.
Yep, it's not even PFRPG--it's back from 3.5, when handing out those sorts of things was unfortunately more common.
It's from early pathfinder. It's from Curse of the Cromson Throne module, #10 history of ashes. I don't see how it's 3.5 material, when even paizo has it under its banner and LLC for their products.
Now if you mean it's not true PFRPG core, like the core file book, DM book, APG, ultimate books and so on, then yes, it is a module/adventure path. However, even those at best are supplements tot he core stuff, and some GM's, or rather many GM's to a degree, allow these other paizo supplements because they expand the world paizo created. Much like how the inner sea books aren't exactly core, they are still widely popular and used.
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Regardless, if you can't use that weapon ability, then your best bet is to dump charisma, semi dump intelligence, and max out str, after wisdom. A medium sized score for con will suffice.
You don't need the guided weapon property! Zen archer's get Wis to hit from level 3! It is even their namesake ability: "Zen Archery".
From level 1 and 2 you will have lower attack bonus for archer (sicne you will use your dex score). This means archery might suck, so you might prefer to go into melee to use your str bonus to hit.
With dumped dex you will have very low AC. You should thus try to avoid melee combat.
UH OH! You need to avoid melee combat, but also avoid ranged combat for levels 1 and 2 :(
I guess you could take the Heirloom weapon trait for a reach weapon (like a longspear). This will allow you to use your str bonus to hit, but somewhat avoid danger by having reach. Not ideal, but it is the best I can come up with so far.
Haha, maybe take Rich Parents, use the starting cash to get a wand of magic missile. For levels 1 and 2 just use that wand for damage :)
You don't need the guided weapon property! Zen archer's get Wis to hit from level 3! It is even their namesake ability: "Zen Archery".
Missing the whole point of a guided bow for a zen archer.
The zen archer already gets wis to hit. With guided on the bow, it's now also wis to damage.
Oh, right. Duh.
Still, since Guided is banned, being not useless for levels 1 and 2 would be nice.
For later levels the Dex dump could allow for higher strength, and thus a stronger composite bow and thus some damage to cancel out the lack of Deadly Aim.
EDIT: You could take 2 levels of ranger, pick the crossbow fighting style, and thus pick Deadly Aim as a bonus feat (ignoring prerequisites).
It is extremely silly, but it works!
True.
@cranedist: also be sure to make your bow, when you can, adaptive. Now it flexes to your str, if it ever fluctuates in battle. Even if not, it's better than buying a new bow every time your str score improves.
True.
@cranefist: also be sure to make your bow, when you can, adaptive. Now it flexes to your str, if it ever fluctuates in battle. Even if not, it's better than buying a new bow every time your str score improves.
It's from early pathfinder. It's from Curse of the Cromson Throne module, #10 history of ashes. I don't see how it's 3.5 material, when even paizo has it under its banner and LLC for their products.
Now if you mean it's not true PFRPG core, like the core file book, DM book, APG, ultimate books and so on, then yes, it is a module/adventure path. However, even those at best are supplements tot he core stuff, and some GM's, or rather many GM's to a degree, allow these other paizo supplements because they expand the world paizo created. Much like how the inner sea books aren't exactly core, they are still widely popular and used.
------Regardless, if you can't use that weapon ability, then your best bet is to dump charisma, semi dump intelligence, and max out str, after wisdom. A medium sized score for con will suffice.
Curse of the Crimson Throne #10 is a 3.5 book.
Not only is CotCT #10 3.5, Guided is intended to be melee only.
ok so its 3.5. Not sure exactly how, except when published. As for JJ and his response, good thing his response isn't the ruling, at least for my GM's table for things.
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cranefist: Helped out as much as I know how to, under your characters circumstances. Have fun playing him. Let us know how it goes.
When it was published is basically the best indicator. If it's before August 2009, it's 3.5. Another good indicator is if it says (OGL) in the product title, although that's not the case for this one. It should also be noted that as it's from a Golarion book and he was the developer/editor for that book, he's fairly well qualified to answer the question :)
But whatever works for your table!
Let me try to work the numbers here. Since you said your giving him a dex of 7. Whats the PB? (point buy)
Zen archers are best as dwarf or human typically. Since no deadly aim, or combat reflexes you have feat wiggle room, so dwarf it is.
Dwarf +2wis, +2 con, -2 cha
15pt: STR: 16 DEX: 7 CON: 14 INT: 10 WIS: 19 CHA: 5 (slow/very stubborn)
20pt: STR: 16 DEX: 7 CON: 16 INT: 10 WIS: 19 CHA: 5 " " (except stronger)
25pt: STR: 16 DEX: 7 CON: 16 INT: 11 WIS: 20 CHA: 5 " " (wiser and slightly smarter)
On the assumption that your trying to go for your characters description as you mentioned, and using your mention of 7 dex to assume a bit of min-maxing (optimization in part), I went with the stats as showed.
If you dislike his low charisma, you will take a hit in other areas, such as str or con. Since your dex and cha are dump stats here, and int is not a huge stat for monks, your wis and str will be very high and a decent con to keep you alive. Don't neglect your con, since you have a low dex your AC will be lower than usual and so will be your reflex and acrobatics skill. Those 3 things all based on dex help keep the zen archer alive in those particular fashions (attack, save, tumble/other).
Also, with a +6 item, you could technically have a 13 dex and get deadly aim, BUT your use of that feat will solely rely on you being able to have/use it. If your in an anti magic field, or it gets sundered/destroyed, or something similar, you lose the feat to use.
Hope this helps you keep the zen archer. If not, what were you thinking of replacing him with?
Take 2 levels of Ranger and choose the Crossbow style. Deadly Aim without pre-reqs. Problem solved.
Take 2 levels of Ranger and choose the Crossbow style. Deadly Aim without pre-reqs. Problem solved.
Cheater. lol :)
Yeah, I really think Zen Archer 9/Ranger 2 is the better of the two options. You miss only a little damage from dumping Strength down to 10. It's really not that big of a deal.