Greater Weapon of the Chosen and Cleave


Rules Questions


How do these two feats interact? Use two die for initial attack and if I hit, I get a second attack against an adjacent enemy (one die only this time) plus a -2 AC penalty?


They don't interact. Greater Weapon of the Chosen is for a single Attack Action, and Cleave is a Standard Action.

Attack Actions and Standard Actions are similar, but two very different things.

Standard Action wrote:

Standard Action

A standard action allows you to do something, most commonly to make an attack or cast a spell.

Some combat options (such as using the Cleave feat) are standard actions that allow you to make an attack, but don’t count as the attack action. These options can’t be combined with other standard actions or options that modify only attack actions (such as Vital Strike).

Attack Action: An attack action is a type of standard action. Some combat options can modify only this specific sort of action. When taking an attack action, you can apply all appropriate options that modify an attack action. Thus, you can apply both Greater Weapon of the Chosen and Vital Strike to the same attack, as both modify your attack action. You can apply these to any combat option that takes the place of a melee attack made using an attack action (such as the trip combat maneuver), though options that increase damage don’t cause attacks to deal damage if they wouldn’t otherwise do so (such as Vital Strike and trip). You can’t combine options that modify attack actions with standard actions that aren’t attack actions, such as Cleave.


My "standard Action" is to make a single attack.....


Belic wrote:
My "standard Action" is to make a single attack.....

then you make one attack and can use Greater Weapon of the Chosen. Now if you want to use Cleave, you have to use a standard action to make that attack.

think of it like this; with a standard action you may
-make a single attack
-drink a potion
-cast a spell
-use a feat or other special ability that takes a standard action to use.

Feats and abilities like Greater Weapon of the Chosen or Vital Strike modify the first one (make a single attack), feats or abilities like Cleave, fall under the last option (use a feat or other special ability that takes a standard action to use)


An Attack Action is a specific type of Standard Action, and Cleave is its own Standard Action.

So you could use Greater Weapon of the Chosen with Vital Strike, because they both modify an Attack Action. But Cleave is not an Attack Action, it's a Standard Action, therefore Greater Weapon of the Chosen wouldn't apply.

Liberty's Edge

As Greater Weapon of the Chosen was written well after the FAQ about how Vital Strike works, I think it is RAI and not only RAW that they can't be both used at the same time.


Belic wrote:
My "standard Action" is to make a single attack.....

The feat doesn't talk about "standard action". It says "attempt a single attack with the attack action".

The term "attack action" used by the feat does not simply refer to any kind of action that contains an attack, far from it. The feat refers to the action called "Attack", listed under "Standard Actions" in the "Actions in Combat" section, on page 182 of the CRB.

As you can see from the word "when", Greater Weapon of the Chosen is a triggered ability, and the trigger is "attempt a single attack with the attack action". Any time a feat, class feature, general rule et al. states an action type for an ability, it's not the attack action - any ability that says "standard action", "move action" "swift action", "immediate action", "full-attack action", or "full round action" uses a different action and thus doesn't trigger GWotC. Attacks of Opportunity don't use an action, and thus obviously aren't attack actions either. Especially note that while the 'attack action' is a type of 'standard action', the opposite is not true (a 'standard action' with an attack is not the 'attack action' unless explicitly called out). If something does not use the exact phrase "attack action" (without a "full" in front), it's not the attack action.


Don't worry Belic, the "Attack Action" is probably the worst written part of Pathfinder. There are hundreds of people who have asked similar questions.

Unfortunatly though, everyone here is correct.

Liberty's Edge

This is thw FAQ I referenced, and the one that made clear than the Attack Action is different from using an action that allow you to make an attack.

FAQ wrote:

Vital Strike: Can I use this with Spring Attack, or on a charge?

No. Vital Strike can only be used as part of an attack action, which is a specific kind of standard action. Spring Attack is a special kind of full-round action that includes the ability to make one melee attack, not one attack action. Charging uses similar language and can also not be used in combination with Vital Strike.
posted November 2012 | back to top

Before the FAQ there was a lot of discussion and uncertain about the Attack Action.


Note that that FAQ doesn't change the rules in any way, it's purely a clarification.

That "standard action" and "attack action" are different things was true in 2009, too.


My interpretation was...

Two dice for first attack to determine whether I hit (GWotC) or not, and if I do hit, then I would get a cleave attack but with only one dice to determine whether I hit or not.


The way the rules are written that doesn't work. You can't use these feats together in the same round.

Having said that, your interpretation seems totally reasonable to me. Ask your GM about it, they may let you go with that.

If you're in PFS you're out of luck though.

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