So, um, where's the circus? (The Show Must Go On spoilers)

[Ravingdork]

As we make our way through the first module, my players and I are becoming increasingly dejected at the distinct lack of "circus stuff."

It started off great early on, with trying to solve a murder in the circus, but after that, it was just...a dungeon crawl.

My players keep asking me when they can perform another show, to which I don't have much in way of answer for them.

Our conversations tend to go as follows, more or less:

Players: Can we put on another show for the town?
GM: You can, but according to the rules, there are diminishing returns for each show you put on in the same location. Besides, your first show went great, and nearly everyone in Abberton saw it. There really isn't anyone left in this town for word to spread to that hasn't already seen it.
Players: Well, alright then, we'll just pack up and head to the next town.
GM: You could do that, but do you really not want to find out why the ringleader was murdered, avenge your fallen friends, or solve the mystery of why the whole isle seems to be suffering from repeated environmental disasters?
Players: We're just performers trying to make a living. We've got no skin in their game.
GM: Of course you've got skin in the game. You can't perform to an audience if they're all dead. Your livelihoods are at stake as much as theirs.
Players: Since the problems seem to be limited to this Isle, then we'll just head to the mainland.
GM: Your circus doesn't have enough money yet to travel that far.
Players: So we'll put on a show and make some money!
GM: The people aren't going to be spending any more money on your shows when they can't sell their dead crops to make more any money or afford to feed their families. You failed to rescue the millers. They were a financial cornerstone to this town.
Players: But...

And round and round it goes.

So I ask: Does the adventure path support opportunities for future shows, and if so, how frequently, and at which points, and to what end? Or is it just a thin introductory veil to better sell the another dungeon crawl adventure under false pretenses?

We're all feeling more than a little gipped here.

[Dirtfox]

I'm saying this as a bystander GM who hasn't read this AP at all so please take it with appropriate amounts of salt grains.

Do you think it would help, or work for you, to take some of the plot elements and encounters and... put them ahead of your group on the path of their circus touring? Like, stop blocking them from doing circus, and instead sprinkle the plot along the road?

[Kasoh]

There's a thread that answers this question, more or less. Zapp had a pretty good run down Amount of Circus Shows in AP.

[Ravingdork]

Dirtfox wrote:

I'm saying this as a bystander GM who hasn't read this AP at all so please take it with appropriate amounts of salt grains.

Do you think it would help, or work for you, to take some of the plot elements and encounters and... put them ahead of your group on the path of their circus touring? Like, stop blocking them from doing circus, and instead sprinkle the plot along the road?

Almost the entire plot takes place in a single dungeon and hinges on a specific macguffin found there. I can't much help it if the adventure is so narrowly defined as to fall apart completely when the PCs go left instead of right.

[Zapp]

To be honest, my honest summary is that you should consider the circus and its rules as just a gimmick. (The rules are of a much lower quality than the core rules, and pretty much fall apart as soon as they're used. In other words, they're meant as a pastime, not something that holds up to scrutiny and minmaxing the way the CRB clearly does)

The plot *never* hinges on your circus performance. This is because the AP was written with the directive to work even for groups that don't care about the circus at all (and indeed the Player's Guide explicitly promises that you can cut out the circus entirely).

This AP is about stopping the dastardly machinations of the Xulgath, and every party needs to be motivated by this.

[Zapp]

Ravingdork wrote:

I can't much help it if the adventure is so narrowly defined as to fall apart completely when the PCs go left instead of right.

Did you read my crazy idea in the other thread, Raving? :)

[KyoYagami068]

I feel you. My party loves the circus and are doing presentations left and right. So you need to put the Xulgaths beteween the party and the circus.

Maybe they kidnap someone when the circus is traveling from Aberton to Escadar. Maybe they find out that the xulgaths have some exotic reptiles(dinos), that could be an excelent addition to the show.

My players always find something/someone new in the adventure to bring to the circus.

[Deriven Firelion]

The circus is optional. It's up to the DM to integrate it as much or little as they want. It has little real bearing on the campaign.

[Phillip Gastone]

Perhaps one way to help with this is suggest to players not to make PCs so circus oriented. No doubt they would want to make PCs focusing on being performers instead of adventurers and thus not be up to snuff for the rest of the AP.

[Winkie_Phace]

I've decided to move on to Agents of Edgewatch, but just after I did I hit on an idea of how I'd work more circus into the campaign. I'd add some lore about the crystals needing to be charged by high amounts of emotional energy. In the past that would have been taken care of by Aroden, but now they need a replacement. The players would then have a clear reason why a circus is needed to save the island, and it would even help explain the kind of strange critical success criteria of hitting the exact target number. Basically, that was the point of the greatest emotional resonance, and it is where the crystals are perfectly charged. Each of the stones would require more and more energy to charge, which would incentivize going after higher and higher DCs.

[profounddark]

Winkie_Phace wrote:

I've decided to move on to Agents of Edgewatch, but just after I did I hit on an idea of how I'd work more circus into the campaign. I'd add some lore about the crystals needing to be charged by high amounts of emotional energy. In the past that would have been taken care of by Aroden, but now they need a replacement. The players would then have a clear reason why a circus is needed to save the island, and it would even help explain the kind of strange critical success criteria of hitting the exact target number. Basically, that was the point of the greatest emotional resonance, and it is where the crystals are perfectly charged. Each of the stones would require more and more energy to charge, which would incentivize going after higher and higher DCs.

This is similar to an idea floated by quite a few folks. Basically, with Aroden dead (a god who's folio includes culture), the Aeon Stones need the circus to essentially "recharge them."

I think it takes some work, especially in the later books, but it would better tie the circus to the story.

[Zapp]

Phillip Gastone wrote:

No doubt they would want to make PCs focusing on being performers instead of adventurers and thus not be up to snuff for the rest of the AP.

From a motivational or story-telling perspective yes this can become a concern.

But if you by "not up to snuff" mean capable adventures - then no. You can easily create a character capable of performing at the circus without sacrificing any combat or adventuring capacity.

[thewastedwalrus]

Well, If your party really wants to put on more circus shows then maybe just let them do that. Use the diminishing returns which allow them to make up to 5 shows in Abberton while also sprinkling in other encounters or breaking developments (townsfolk/performers get kidnapped, attacks on the town/circus) that suggest they're the only ones who could help.

You could also make it so that the circus members don't want to leave town until they get concrete answers on why their beloved ringleader was slain (Balenni). Also, offer the full reward from the mayor and maybe throw in an interesting item tailored to a PC to try and get them on the main quest.

My party was also bummed about the lack of circus performances written into the first book, but it does pick up significantly in the 2nd-4th books.

[TheJokerPlays]

Ravingdork wrote:

As we make our way through the first module, my players and I are becoming increasingly dejected at the distinct lack of "circus stuff."

It started off great early on, with trying to solve a murder in the circus, but after that, it was just...a dungeon crawl.

My players keep asking me when they can perform another show, to which I don't have much in way of answer for them.

** spoiler omitted **

So I ask: Does the adventure path support opportunities for future shows, and if so, how frequently,...

My players took the 'If we don't do something to heal these towers then our home-island (they consider Abberton their home now, they're Abbertonians in perpetuity after-all!) will be destroyed. Nay, perhaps the entire world (who the f!~& knows at this point)

That's plenty motivation to help! After-all if not them then who? Everyone else doesn't even believe the towers are that important. They haven't got a clue and who are they going to tell? They're just a bunch of circus clowns...

It's that Han Solo-esque motivation of well f$%$, if not me then who. Fine, I GUESS I need a galaxy to survive in... And do my smuggling thing that I'd rather be doing right now.