Potion Crafting and Pages of spell knowledge

[wolfprince95]

Ok so my question is very simple.

I play a Sorcerer I have a Page of spell Knowledge that's Mage Armor that I use.

Can I use the page when crafting a potion of Mage Armor or does it not count as a spell known?

[OmniMage]

Why not? Pages of spell knowledge are quite a bit more pricey than what a wizard would pay to add spells to their spell book. For a wizard, a level 1 spell would cost 10 gp to add to their spell book, but a page of spell knowledge for a level 1 spell will cost 1000 gp, which costs a 100 times more. Its not a cost efficient way to make magic items.

[Diego Rossi]

Yes, you can, it is a spell you know.

The price argument has no value, as the page of spell knowledge is a magic item that adds a known spell to a spontaneous caster list, not a spell added in a spellbook. It is like comparing a bicycle to a wheelbarrow and complaining that the bicycle carries less stuff than the wheelbarrow.

[Joesi]

off-topic:

It seems like an odd thing to get potion crafting feat since potions are expensive. Usually wands or scrolls work better (AT LEAST for long-duration or instantaneous spells like mage armor or healing), and if you really need a potion, alchemists get the feat for free (or infusions which generally work out better for the party, even though he doesn't have access to spells like Mage Armor specifically)

[wolfprince95]

Yea I originally got it thinking I would need it to craft poisons but found out I didn't need it so was looking for other ways to use it. I know it's not the most efficient way of doing it but it is story wise for him

[OmniMage]

Diego Rossi wrote:

Yes, you can, it is a spell you know.

The price argument has no value, as the page of spell knowledge is a magic item that adds a known spell to a spontaneous caster list, not a spell added in a spellbook. It is like comparing a bicycle to a wheelbarrow and complaining that the bicycle carries less stuff than the wheelbarrow.

I... ah... oh whatever. First point was me saying that you might as well get such an effect after spending so much money. Not my best work.

The second point was that it costs you so much money, so that you are not going to be able compete with a prepared caster until you gain many additional levels. 4th level is the earliest you can attempt to pull this off, and then you may only buy 1 set of magical writings. At level 4, you should have 6000 gp, so a single page of spell knowledge will be about 1/6th of your total wealth. So don't fool yourself that into thinking this puts you on equal footing with the prepared spell casters; it does not.

Crafting magic items is best left to prepared casters with their big spell lists. Trying to keep up will cost you substantially more. You're better off finding a handful of spells you need often and making scrolls of them.

[Diego Rossi]

OmniMage wrote:

Crafting magic items is best left to prepared casters with their big spell lists. Trying to keep up will cost you substantially more. You're better off finding a handful of spells you need often and making scrolls of them.

Crafting potions, scrolls and wands is best left to prepared casters, and even that only if you are the only spellcaster in the group, as you can make them cooperating with others.

For all other items lacking the appropriate spells only increase the DC of the Spellcraft check by 5 for each spell you lack. Generally the DC increase is meaningless.

BTW: Page of spell knowledge is a Wondrous item, so the spontaneous caster can make it even if he lacks the spell.
Actually a Commoner with enough ranks in the Scribe profession, Master craftsman, and Craft wondrous item can make them with 0 ranks in Spellcraft and Knowledge arcana.

[OmniMage]

You can't skip spell prerequisites for scrolls, potions, wands, and staves. You need to be able to cast the spell in order to make such items. This can be a spell known to you, known to a friend helping you make that magic item, or from a scroll or other magic item.

I could make the case the same should be true of pages of spell knowledge... but that would miss the point of making them. You're making them to expand the spells you have available to you.

[Diego Rossi]

OmniMage wrote:

You can't skip spell prerequisites for scrolls, potions, wands, and staves. You need to be able to cast the spell in order to make such items. This can be a spell known to you, known to a friend helping you make that magic item, or from a scroll or other magic item.

Exactly what I said (but I left out staves, my bad).

OmniMage wrote:

I could make the case the same should be true of pages of spell knowledge... but that would miss the point of making them. You're making them to expand the spells you have available to you.

RAW, they are Wondrous items, so there is no need to know the spell.

Personally, I find that very distasteful and in my home games I have changed the feat required to make them to Scribe scroll, but it is a home rule.