I love strength monks but I am fascinated by making a heavy armor fist fighter.
I thought at first that Fighter would be the perfect class for that fantasy but the class feat selection is a bit action heavy and flourish as well as Press doesn't work all that well with FoB which I'd be planning to dedication into.
So instead I thought Flurry Ranger has more passives class feats and also Flurry Hunt Prey works really well with unarmed attacks.
Both builds would be Half Elf to multi talent into monk at lvl 9 and pick up FoB at lvl 10. So I think it comes down to Flurry Ranger with Sentinel Dedication vs Fighter with Marshal dedication.
Haven't really thought about lvls beyond 10. Though I think Fighter Marshall would end up better. Anyone here tried the Heavy Brawler, thoughts experiences?
PS: I really hate how unarmed attacks don't qualify for TWF feats because wearing a shield as a fist fighter is lame.
Uuhhhh...
What about...
Ruffian Rogue as base?
Ruffian have medium armor by default making heavy with Sentinel and Rogue have decent passives like Mobility and Gang Up, as well maneuver feats like Shove Down and Head stomp.
Sneak Attack works with unarmed attacks just fine too.
The disadvantage is that it's d8 HP instead of d10 like the ones that you are thinking.
is the sneak attack better than getting fighter's legendary in unarmed strikes or the -2/-4 second and 3rd+ attacks on ranger for pumping out a ton of attacks.
However the assassin archetype works really well with the likes of the fighters snagging strike
If you're willing to wait until 10 for Flurry anyways, you might consider going into Martial Artist instead for Grievous Blow at 8. It's a better fit for Dragon Style since the strikes aren't agile.
Gorilla Barbarians can still wear heavy armor, right?
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I love strength monks but I am fascinated by making a heavy armor fist fighter.
I thought at first that Fighter would be the perfect class for that fantasy but the class feat selection is a bit action heavy and flourish as well as Press doesn't work all that well with FoB which I'd be planning to dedication into.
So instead I thought Flurry Ranger has more passives class feats and also Flurry Hunt Prey works really well with unarmed attacks.
Both builds would be Half Elf to multi talent into monk at lvl 9 and pick up FoB at lvl 10. So I think it comes down to Flurry Ranger with Sentinel Dedication vs Fighter with Marshal dedication.
Haven't really thought about lvls beyond 10. Though I think Fighter Marshall would end up better. Anyone here tried the Heavy Brawler, thoughts experiences?PS: I really hate how unarmed attacks don't qualify for TWF feats because wearing a shield as a fist fighter is lame.
I'm building a Ruffian Rogue / Sentinel / Medic myself. Flurry of blows + Sneak attack is great but I wonder how easy it will be to make enemies flat-footed.
As for TWF, have you considered the gauntlet? It wouldn't work for FoB, though.
Gorilla Barbarians can still wear heavy armor, right?
oh you're right can but you still lose out on incredible movement. Stumbling Stance doesn't have the unarmored requirement either.
If you're willing to wait until 10 for Flurry anyways, you might consider going into Martial Artist instead for Grievous Blow at 8. It's a better fit for Dragon Style since the strikes aren't agile.
grieveous blow is a flourish move however but it's probably worth going martial artist during leveling and then retrain at lvl 10 out of martial artist and into another archetype. That would take rather long however in game.
I'm building a Ruffian Rogue / Sentinel / Medic myself. Flurry of blows + Sneak attack is great but I wonder how easy it will be to make enemies flat-footed.
As for TWF, have you considered the gauntlet? It wouldn't work for FoB, though.
I couldn't figure out how gauntlets work tbh, didn't even realize it meant you aren't making unarmed attacks anymore.
Gorilla Barbarians can still wear heavy armor, right?oh you're right can but you still lose out on incredible movement. Stumbling Stance doesn't have the unarmored requirement either.
Between Sudden Charge, Fast Movement, Raging Athlete, and Pounce, Barbarians can be plenty mobile though.
I think I settled on Fighter for now and going like this
Half Elf Human Gambler (Str 18/Dex 10/Con 12/Int 10/Wis 14/Cha 14
1: Snagging Strike; Sudden Charge (Natural Ambition)
2: Martial Artist Dedication; Alchemical Crafting
3: Fleet
4: Stumbling Stance
5: Nimble Elf
6: Follow-Up Strike
8: Grieveous Blow
9: Monk Dedication (Multi-Talented); Sudden Leap (Combat Flexibility)
10: Flurry of Blows
12: Stumbling Stance (Basic Kata); retrain 1, 2, 4, 6, 8
1: maybe replace Natural Ambition with Something
2: Assassin Dedication
4: Surprise Attack (Expert Backstabber sadly requires a weapon)
6: Sneak Attack
8: Sudden Leap (opening up Felling Strike with Combat Flexibility)
Unsure about the Assassin Dedication or if I still need stumbling stance when Assassin already gives unarmed attacks backstab at which point the stance is a dice increase and the passive bonuses.
Between Sudden Charge, Fast Movement, Raging Athlete, and Pounce, Barbarians can be plenty mobile though.
I completely misread that, I read that as gorilla stance monk. Yes you're right, I never considered the Barbarian for this.
Fighter in general is just such a versatile class it is hard to pass up. I feel the build should work great. Love the idea to use Half-Elf for Monk Dedication/Flurry.
Fighter in general is just such a versatile class it is hard to pass up. I feel the build should work great. Love the idea to use Half-Elf for Monk Dedication/Flurry.
Yeah the fighter chassis is so strong you can go into any direction and do well.
And I'm kind of obsessed with all the ancestry feats that grant extra class feats, so much so it tilts me if Natural Ambition doesn't have a 2nd feat that seems worth it. Multi-Talented particularly while ignoring the 14 str/dex requirements enables picking a couple class features with barely any dip.
Like you could pick up investigator/ranger just to grab the feat that gives you master in perception, rogue's deny advantage, swash for extra speed,...
is the sneak attack better than getting fighter's legendary in unarmed strikes or the -2/-4 second and 3rd+ attacks on ranger for pumping out a ton of attacks.
However the assassin archetype works really well with the likes of the fighters snagging strike
It seems comparable to the fighter, and it is probably better than the ranger. Mostly because of action economy issues that could prevent you from using all those extra hits (which is less of an issue with a bow ranger). Since the current edition relies so heavily on damage dice, the damage from sneak attack is comparable to getting another hit in with a basic d6 unarmed strike.
I know that rogues have a pretty efficient 3 action routine with tumble behind and twin feint. This allows for mobility and can make the opponent flatfooted to both of your attacks. Even if you fail the tumble through, your second attack is still guaranteed to have sneak attack on it.
As a note- precision ranger could get in similar damage to sneak attack with their one big hit. You don't get a second bit hit for a while, but you could spend those actions on a giant wolf instead, who would also get one big precision hit of its own. Tag teaming with a giant beast that you wrestled into obedience seem pretty cool for a brawler type.
It seems comparable to the fighter, and it is probably better than the ranger. Mostly because of action economy issues that could prevent you from using all those extra hits (which is less of an issue with a bow ranger). Since the current edition relies so heavily on damage dice, the damage from sneak attack is comparable to getting another hit in with a basic d6 unarmed strike.
I know that rogues have a pretty efficient 3 action routine with tumble behind and twin feint. This allows for mobility and can make the opponent flatfooted to both of your attacks. Even if you fail the tumble through, your second attack is still guaranteed to have sneak attack on it.
As a note- precision ranger could get in similar damage to sneak attack with their one big hit. You don't get a second bit hit for a while, but you could spend those actions on a giant wolf instead, who would also get one big precision hit of its own. Tag teaming with a giant beast that you wrestled into obedience seem pretty cool for a brawler type.
Twin Feint requires 2 1 handed weapons however so that's not an option with unarmed attacks annoyingly.
Nimble dodge however is preferable to a shield for flavour reasons so there'd still be a lvl 1 feat that's not too bad.I really like the idea of going snagging strike into FoB rn and Assassin Dedication gets most of the rogue features in weaker form.
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Well, the restriction on unarmed depends partially on what you are aiming for. If you want to go into a martial artist or monk dedication and get style feats, then yes. No luck there.
But you could also grab gauntlets and smash someone's face in. Annoyingly, gauntlets do not play well with most rogues, since they lack the finesse trait for some reason. Of course, if you are going for a heavier armor route, you might go ruffian and strength anyway, which makes that issue moot.
However, the monk path might be the better in the long run, but it comes on later. If you grab style feats along with FoB, then you could get stumbling style. Getting a long lasting feint and two d8, backstab worthy attacks off with a single action is something rogues would love.
Well, the restriction on unarmed depends partially on what you are aiming for. If you want to go into a martial artist or monk dedication and get style feats, then yes. No luck there.
But you could also grab gauntlets and smash someone's face in. Annoyingly, gauntlets do not play well with most rogues, since they lack the finesse trait for some reason. Of course, if you are going for a heavier armor route, you might go ruffian and strength anyway, which makes that issue moot.
However, the monk path might be the better in the long run, but it comes on later. If you grab style feats along with FoB, then you could get stumbling style. Getting a long lasting feint and two d8, backstab worthy attacks off with a single action is something rogues would love.
Yeah that's why the idea is during leveling to take martial artist dedication and stumbling stance and at lvl 12 retrain out of martial artist and take stumbling stance with the monk dedication instead.
For some reason the drunken monk style doesn't require you to be unarmored. I don't see marked for death getting much use in combat outside of boss fights but assassin doesn't require the rogue dedications 14 dex. Although now that I think about getting 14 dex is a low cost to get an extra skill feat from the rogue dedication and the better archetype feats probably. The dex wouldn't be wasted either improving reflex saves and a couple useful skills.