Massive Damage Death and Temporary Hit Points

[mrspaghetti]

Massive Damage wrote:

You die instantly if you ever take damage equal to or greater than double your maximum Hit Points in one blow.

Temporary Hit Points wrote:

Some spells or abilities give you temporary Hit Points. Track these separately from your current and maximum Hit Points; when you take damage, reduce your temporary Hit Points first. Most temporary Hit Points last for a limited duration. You can’t regain lost temporary Hit Points through healing, but you can gain more via other abilities. You can have temporary Hit Points from only one source at a time. If you gain temporary Hit Points when you already have some, choose whether to keep the amount you already have and their corresponding duration or to gain the new temporary Hit Points and their duration.

As written, it appears to me that massive damage disregards temporary hit points. So even if a character had 10 hit points max at first level but somehow had 11 temporary hit points (for a total of 21), a single blow inflicting 20 HP would be instantly fatal.

Does that seem correct?

[Watery Soup]

I read it as the character actually taking damage, i.e., 20 damage would not instakill because the character does not take 11 of that damage; but 31 damage (11+2*10) would instakill.

But I am biased against the massive damage rule in general so I admit I will stretch to find any loophole I can.

[The Gleeful Grognard]

Yes, massive damage RAW ignores temp HP.

But as said many times in the past, it is essentially a level 1 issue with rare cases of it effecting someone at level 2-3.

[mrspaghetti]

Watery Soup wrote:

I read it as the character actually taking damage, i.e., 20 damage would not instakill because the character does not take 11 of that damage; but 31 damage (11+2*10) would instakill.

But I am biased against the massive damage rule in general so I admit I will stretch to find any loophole I can.

That is a reading that I can live with. If you consider temp hit points to reduce damage similar to using Shield Block, then massive damage would not apply in the example above since the character only actually takes 9 damage.

Thanks

[th3razzer]

Watery Soup wrote:

I read it as the character actually taking damage, i.e., 20 damage would not instakill because the character does not take 11 of that damage; but 31 damage (11+2*10) would instakill.

But I am biased against the massive damage rule in general so I admit I will stretch to find any loophole I can.

I would disagree with this reading.

You are right in saying that the damage is subtracted from temporary hit points first, but beyond that it changes the ruling.

In another scenario, say you had that same character at 5 HP of his total 10.

5 / 10

Then we add the 11 temporary hit points

16 / 10

His total "to-kill-instantly" threshold is still 20. Just because you have a bigger buffer to your "actual" HP doesn't mean you didn't meet the insta-kill "requirements." You are still taking 20 damage. As in, all resistances, circumstances, etc. etc. are all tallied and calculated, meaning you do take 20 damage or more.

That is the only requirement for being one-shot, is that you take a damage value equal to or greater than double your maximum HP.

Just like how temporary hit points can't heal you back from the dying condition (because it's not healing), they also don't modify anything else. You can actually fall unconscious even if you have temporary HP if something deals direct HP damage to you. They're tallied separately.

[mrspaghetti]

th3razzer wrote:

You can actually fall unconscious even if you have temporary HP if something deals direct HP damage to you. They're tallied separately.

Can you give me an example of a situation where damage is subtracted from base hit points before temporary hit points? (If that is what you are saying)

[Cordell Kintner]

mrspaghetti wrote:

th3razzer wrote:

You can actually fall unconscious even if you have temporary HP if something deals direct HP damage to you. They're tallied separately.

Can you give me an example of a situation where damage is subtracted from base hit points before temporary hit points? (If that is what you are saying)

Spirit Link, Life Link, Shield Other.

[mrspaghetti]

Cordell Kintner wrote:

mrspaghetti wrote:

th3razzer wrote:

You can actually fall unconscious even if you have temporary HP if something deals direct HP damage to you. They're tallied separately.

Can you give me an example of a situation where damage is subtracted from base hit points before temporary hit points? (If that is what you are saying)

Spirit Link, Life Link, Shield Other.

Spirit Link, yes. The others are debatable.

Thanks

[Krugus]

So if I had 10 hp max and from a spell received 5 temp hp, if I took 3 pts of damage then the temp hp wore off am I down to 7 hp or would I be at my max of 10? :)

[mrspaghetti]

Krugus wrote:

So if I had 10 hp max and from a spell received 5 temp hp, if I took 3 pts of damage then the temp hp wore off am I down to 7 hp or would I be at my max of 10? :)

You'd be at your max of 10, unless the damage you took was from Spirit Link or some other effect that specifically bypasses temporary hit points.

[PlantThings]

mrspaghetti wrote:

Spirit Link, yes. The others are debatable.

Thanks

I think Shield Other is pretty clear cut on not bypassing temporary hit points. It exclusively refers to the redirection as damage; no mention of losing hit points at all.

Life Link is odd. It refers to the redirection as losing hit points once but is referred to as damage everywhere else in the description.