Does using archetype spellcasting feats grant me more signature spells?


Rules Discussion


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I am currently playing an elven sorcerer who I'm hoping to make a "master of the arcane."

To that end, I've recently picked up Wizard Dedication and am planning on taking feats like Arcane Evolution and Basic Wizard Spellcasting. Perhaps even Witch Dedication and some of its spellcasting feats too.

Now, I noticed that the rules for the Spellcasting feats say that "if you have a spell repertoire, you can select one spell from your repertoire as a signature spell."

As I meet that criteria, I believe this would net my sorcerer additional signature spells. If not, please convince me, or show me what I've missed, as I'm not seeing any qualifiers or restrictions that would impede that interpretation.


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Ravingdork wrote:
Now, I noticed that the rules for the Spellcasting feats say that "if you have a spell repertoire, you can select one spell from your repertoire as a signature spell."

Wow, what poorly-written errata. Written in haste, presumably, and then copied into the APG w/o further thought. :-(

RAI is obviously against you, but RAW is on your side. Enjoy your ill-gotten gains. :-P

Grand Lodge

Ravingdork wrote:


Now, I noticed that the rules for the Spellcasting feats say that "if you have a spell repertoire, you can select one spell from your repertoire as a signature spell."

I've never noticed that entry, do you have a reference for it?


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Looks like it's APG p.150, under "Basic Spellcasting Feat." And hilariously, he's right - the wording just says "if you have a spell repertoire" and doesn't say "for the dedication's class".

The paragraph right above that does apply a restriction that limits these benefits to the archetype's spellcasting, but it explicitly refers only to spell slots when it does so.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jared Walter 356 wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:


Now, I noticed that the rules for the Spellcasting feats say that "if you have a spell repertoire, you can select one spell from your repertoire as a signature spell."

I've never noticed that entry, do you have a reference for it?

It's in the basic rules for spellcasting archetypes in both the Core Rulebook and Asvanced Player's Guide.

SOURCE

Note though that it was part of the first round of errata, and so doesn't appear in the hardcopy books at this time.

Horizon Hunters

Even if you select a signature spell, it won't help you. You can only cast spells from your archetype in those slots. Since your slots are prepared you wont gain anything.

Further, the Expert Spellcasting says

Quote:
Expert Spellcasting Feat: Taken at 12th level, these feats make you an expert in spell attack rolls and DCs of the appropriate magical tradition and grant you a 4th-level spell slot. If you have a spell repertoire, you can select a second spell from your repertoire as a signature spell.

The wording in the dedications obviously means it's limited to the dedication's spell slots. You wouldn't gain signature spells for your main class by taking slots from archetypes.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Cordell Kintner wrote:
Even if you select a signature spell, it won't help you. You can only cast spells from your archetype in those slots. Since your slots are prepared you wont gain anything.

Per the archetype spellcasting rules, I would be choosing an existing spell in my repertoire, not one of my wizard spells.

Cordell Kintner wrote:
The wording in the dedications obviously means it's limited to the dedication's spell slots. You wouldn't gain signature spells for your main class by taking slots from archetypes.

I'm sure that's probably the intent, but the specific wording currently in the rules is the exact opposite of the "obvious" that you claim. In fact as worded, it makes it pretty clear that if you have a spell repertoire (I do), I can select a spell (from said repertoire) as a signature spell.

It doesn't really get any more clear cut than that.

Horizon Hunters

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What I was trying to point out is, if you were a 12th level sorcerer you would have at least 6 signature spells already, but the Expert Dedication says you get a Second signature spell. Why? Because it's locked to that archetype.

Quote:
All spell slots you gain from spellcasting archetypes have restrictions depending on the archetype; for instance, the bard archetype grants you spell slots you can use only to cast occult spells from your bard repertoire, even if you are a sorcerer with occult spells in your sorcerer repertoire.

Any features granted in the Basic Expert and Master Spellcasting feats apply exclusively to the repertoire of the archetype in the name of the feat. Any signature spells you gain are exclusive to that archetype's repertoire. You can not get signature spells outside of it since it's referencing the Archetype's spell slots and repertoire, not your general repertoire.

You can not read a single line of a rule and ignore the context explained earlier in the description.


I don't think any GM is going to fall for that loophole.

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