Crafting magic items with special materials; Adamantine Sturdy Shields

[Cordell Kintner]

So the rules on special materials say you can craft magic items out of them, depending on the quality. So for instance, Standard-grade items can be used to create magic items of up to 15th level and can hold runes of up to 15th level. This means one should be able to create a Standard-Grade Adamantine Sturdy Shield (Moderate). The question here is if one were to do that, would it increase the hardness/HP of the shield?

The assumption of Sturdy Shields is that they are made of Steel as a normal shield, and enhanced with magic. The difference of a Steel shield and Adamantine shield is +5 Hardness and +20hp. With this info, enchanting an Adamantine shield with Sturdy should increase its hardness and HP in the same way as the Steel shield, resulting in 18 Hardness and 124HP.

There are no rules stating this, but that's what one can assume based on the rules and how the Sturdy Shield works. What do you guys think?

For simpler reading, here's the stats of all the items:
Steel Shield: Hardness 5, HP 20, Level N/A, 2gp
Sturdy Shield (Moderate): Hardness 13, HP 104, Level 10, 1000gp
Standard-Grade Adamantine Shield: Hardness 10, HP 40, Level 8, 440pgp

Theorized Standard-Grade Adamantine Sturdy Shield (Moderate): Hardness 18, HP 124, Level 10, 1440gp

[Taja the Barbarian]

Generally speaking, you can't alter any of the properties of specific items, including the material they are made of: Sturdy shields are always made of the same material and have the same stats.

[Cordell Kintner]

and where does it say that? The rules for crafting with special materials say you CAN make magic items out of different materials.

[Themetricsystem]

Magic Item /=/ Specific Magic Items

You can make a +1 Adamantine Steel Shield, but you cannot make a +1 Adamantine Spined Shield.

[Cordell Kintner]

Again, where does it say this? The entry for crafting that I linked specifies Magic Items AND Runes. A +1 shield is not a magic item, it is a shield with a +1 rune etched on it. Further more, I don't know of any runes that can even be etched onto shields, as there are Armor and Weapon runes. If there's a shield rune added later that's a different problem.

So far I have not seen any rules suggesting this can't be done.

[Otiamros]

Cordell Kintner wrote:

Again, where does it say this? The entry for crafting that I linked specifies Magic Items AND Runes. A +1 shield is not a magic item, it is a shield with a +1 rune etched on it. Further more, I don't know of any runes that can even be etched onto shields, as there are Armor and Weapon runes. If there's a shield rune added later that's a different problem.

So far I have not seen any rules suggesting this can't be done.

There are no "+1" Shields. All magic shields are specific magic items and don't interact with the rune system at all.

[The Gleeful Grognard]

Themetricsystem wrote:

Magic Item /=/ Specific Magic Items

You can make a +1 Adamantine Steel Shield, but you cannot make a +1 Adamantine Spined Shield.

You can't make a +1 shield at all :p

That aside, they are right. The rules suggest being able to craft specific magic items with different materials as runes aren't items in and of themselves when it comes to material types.

I wouldn't know RAI though. Way less interesting / versatile if knowing a specific recipe didn't allow you to use other materials.

[thenobledrake]

While I don't have a more general quote on hand for putting precious materials together with specific magic items, I do have a quote in regards to sturdy shields:

Gamemastery Guide p. 84 wrote:

Use the sturdy shields as benchmarks for the best possible shield Hardness, HP, and BT for a shield of that level.

So you're probably not meant to have even better stats even by combining a precious material (at least not without the result being a higher level of item).

[Themetricsystem]

Yeah, I was delirious when I posted my reply thinking about armor - my bad. I suppose I need to stop browsing and posting here when suffering a bout of insomnia.

[Cordell Kintner]

thenobledrake wrote:

While I don't have a more general quote on hand for putting precious materials together with specific magic items, I do have a quote in regards to sturdy shields:

Gamemastery Guide p. 84 wrote:

Use the sturdy shields as benchmarks for the best possible shield Hardness, HP, and BT for a shield of that level.

So you're probably not meant to have even better stats even by combining a precious material (at least not without the result being a higher level of item).

Yea this was the info I was looking for. I was on the fence about it but this is good info. The only thing it would be good for is the damage type then lol.