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Hey there Hivemind!
A PFS player I game with has asked if they can retrain their owl familiar’s native Weapon Finesse feat to Additional Traits, giving them the option to take Adopted and then Frustrating, a specific race trait for Gathlains.
Ignoring my major apprehensions about how the hell an owl raised by Gathlains becomes the familiar of a wizard from the Mwangi Expanse, is this legit for PFS play? Personally I wouldn't allow it in my own game because IT MAKES NO SENSE, but I can't find a reason why not according to PFS rules. Thanks in advance for any advice and input - just trying to confirm that they have the all-clear so that they don't waste hours rebuilding their owl!
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I remember a lot of discussion about this back then, but I don't remember what the final answer was. I did find this from the Campaign Coordinator, though:
Mike, I'm interested in knowing how this will effect familiars who normally get Weapon Finesse. That feat is completely redundant for familiars, because it is written into the familiar feature that they use Dexterity or Strength, whatever is higher. Is it as good as it sounds, or does a familiar who gives up Weapon Finesse lose access to this feature?If a familiar gives up Weapon Finesse, they lose access to this feature.
So it looks like you can retrain Weapon Finesse, but the Familiar loses the innate ability to use Dex for attack rolls normally granted because of its size.
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I think there’s something more recent than Mike’s post. In the animal companion/familiar blog (don’t have a link right now). I believe you can freely swap weapon finesse now, if all that familiar is going to do is use natural attacks. If it’s an improved familiar with a weapon (Imp, brownie, maybe a couple of others), then it needs finesse to use dex with its weapons.
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I remember a lot of discussion about this back then, but I don't remember what the final answer was. I did find this from the Campaign Coordinator, though:
So it looks like you can retrain Weapon Finesse, but the Familiar loses the innate ability to use Dex for attack rolls normally granted because of its size.Mike, I'm interested in knowing how this will effect familiars who normally get Weapon Finesse. That feat is completely redundant for familiars, because it is written into the familiar feature that they use Dexterity or Strength, whatever is higher. Is it as good as it sounds, or does a familiar who gives up Weapon Finesse lose access to this feature?If a familiar gives up Weapon Finesse, they lose access to this feature.
Finally looked for the answer. It's in the FAQ
Some Tiny familiars have the Weapon Finesse feat listed as one of their feats, even though they gain the benefits of Weapon Finesse for free from their size. Swapping out this feat does not deprive Tiny familiars of the ability to use its Dexterity to hit on any of their attacks, including touch attacks made to deliver spells.
Taking Adopted is a bigger issue, as Tomppa pointed out. I think Gathlain may have been a boon at some point, in which case a character could have that boon applied to take adopted and select the trait, but I don't know if that works for an animal companion.
If the player wants the Owl to take Additional Traits for something else, though, and retrain out of Weapon Finesse, that should be good per the current FAQ.
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Can I retrain an animal companion, mount, familar, eidolon, or other companion creature?
You may retrain the feats and skill points of your companion creatures using the retraining rules from Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Campaign, paying the same cost in gold and Prestige Points as you would if you were retraining those abilities for your characte...
You may retrain any other non-bonus feats that your familiar may gain into Extra Item Slot using the standard rules for feat retraining.
Link #2 para.3 sentence.2
So, you can retrain your familiar's Feats.
Which Feat can I choose? Only the Feats from Animal Archive and Familiar Folio (certain feats for familiar and animal companion) or all the Feats?
I can't find any RAW. However, most GMs of our group suggest all the Feats, so that's our HR for now. Some GMs may not comfortable with some special Traits gained by Extra Traits, thus they may refuse to take such PCs.
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It's not an Organized Play ruling, it's a General Rule that a Creature with Intelligence of 3+ can take any Feats they're capable of physically using (with some restrictions for Familiars and Animal Companions, such as taking Weapon Feats).
Taking the Additional Traits Feat opened up the ability to put Traits on a Familiar (or a sufficiently intelligent Animal Companion), and was popular for lowering Armor Check Penalty or getting bonuses to Saving Throws.
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It's not an Organized Play ruling, it's a General Rule that a Creature with Intelligence of 3+ can take any Feats they're capable of physically using (with some restrictions for Familiars and Animal Companions, such as taking Weapon Feats).
Yeah, the General Rule is why we built our HR, though I guess it's a common sense, not RAW.
Anyway, since the HR is built, some inspire ideas come out.
A player use Arbiter as his improved Familiar, retrain its default Feat to Divine Fighting Technique (Iomedae). So the Arbiter can use Iomedae`s Inspiring Sword each round, granting every allies in 30ft. +2 bonus on AB, save throws and skills . Emissary Familiar shares his master's worship, and Arbiter can weild weapons. The only issue is Arbiter is Tiny，but in PFS, he can not purchase a Tiny sword. However, Iomedae`s Inspiring Sword doesn't demand a sword of size-matched, a small sword is fine.