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barring any kind of current loud opinions, this thread is to go over most if not all aspects of the magus, give my opinion, in hopes that opens up discourse to others to voice their opinions, and maybe see other perspective on the individual pieces.
Magus uses STR or DEX as its main stat and can wear up to medium armor. combined with getting to martial proficiency. This class is a martial class base chassis. the d8 hit die means its more of a skirmisher like the rogue but it is still a martial chassis.
skills are arcana+2, i assume it is so low as they expect you to bump your INT, though i havent seen a reason to do so outside of bumping your already bad to hit/save with spells.
the saves give me pause, i wasnt expecting expert fortitude but reflex. given the hp pool and general flavor.
spellcasting is interesting, maxing at 4 spell slots, and auto scaling as opposed to gaining more over time.
battle spells are focus spells, and always welcome.
Striking spell, i dont get it. you cast a spell and place it inside your weapon or body. k? so lets unpac this. assuming you took voluntary flaws, tanked your CON, you can have 16 INT at level 1 with 14 dex and 18 str. as you level, your proficiency in spells fall behind. you have limited slots, and all this does is make the spell single target touch range as part of a melee strike. its *nice* that it doesnt incur map until you are done. however. it means so little. you will be at -3 to -4 behind a spell caster casting a cantrip normally, and any spell with a DC you will have a fairly low chance of it succeeding vs anything but extreme mooks. if you isntead had an agile weapon you could just attack twice, second time at -4, but wait, weapons also get +hit runes! spells do not so that lack of map incursion matters less and less as you gain levels. *there is no point in using spell strike* outside of trying to deal with damage resistance. maybe a feat helps it?
Synthesis; shooting star lets you shoot, gives no action economy or to hit benefits. slide casting DOES give you action economy fixing. and sustaining steel looks good until you realize your using a two handed weapon and dont automatically have the necessary feats and investments to use a two handed weapon and cast spells, plus you can trap yourself with material component spells if you are not careful.
winner goes to slide casting by a mile, only because eldritch archer does what shooting star does better, and sustaining steel is clunky in actual play scenarios.
feats!
arcane fists: so...i guess its needed if you really want to go unarmed.
combat assessment, eschew materials and familiar are all just rips from other classes. combat assessment would work if you actually went for 16INT. raise a tome however, is at least unique, even if its just parry with a ribbon +1 recall modifier attached. cant they just use a shield? an investigator, mastermind rogue or wizard, cleric, alchemist, witch, bard, etc, etc, make better recall knowledge classes as well.
2nd level only unique non rip feat is spirit sheathe, wich is interesting from a RP perspective and gives a little action economy boost with spell strike, that thing im still not sure why id use. but with slide that is a draw, cast and move option all at once. so on paper that sounds good. if you dont care about the spell you cast, use a cantrip i guess, in the very least you might get a little bonus damage on the swing at the beginning of combat.
4th level has 2 unique feats, the rips ill mention bespell strikes, not interested, because you have 4 spell slots per day, i dont feel like spending a feat for 4d6 potential damage once a day. Spell parry is good, better than raise a tome. striker's scroll is basically once a combat spell slot extension provided you have the scroll and adhered it prior. if only i wanted to use spell strike.
energize strikes is bad, requires an action, that thing you dont have many of because of how spell strike works if you were to use your spells for attacking. and gets you maximum of +4 damage on a strike. combined with bespell thats 1d6+4 per strike after casting a spell. if only it were that easy.
martial caster is interesting in that you get more spell slots even if they are specific. but you get no action economy fixes to them. so mostly for utility or if you find yourself in a scenario where you cannot smack someone with your weapon.
capture spell is cool, way to get more use of that action im not sure if i want to do still. but if i ever wanted to do it, its great.
standby spell...i dont get it...just prepare your spell.
spell swipe, again, would be cool if i wanted to use spell strike.
cascading ray, super cool! too bad my to hit with spells isnt very good, with no way to improve them.
comet spell, free action! and lets shooting star do something unique. even if it is again, with that spell strike feature.
healer's steel, would be pretty good, if..well..you know.
portal slide, hey! no reactions on my neck is nice and gives me a reason id try to use spell strike...though i could also multiclass and get a non conditional form of this that just lets me not receive any reactions for half my movement.
quickened spellstrike, just kidding its quicken metamagic with a different name and requiring you to do that thing im not sure if i want to do.
bespell persistence, hey not bad, would let me stack up a little damage between bespell weapon, and this, maybe energize strikes.
overwhelming spell strike, same scenario as quicken.
school shroud is pretty interesting, and gives more reason to try and use spell strike.
pretanatural parry, its good? seems good.
dispelling spellstrike, same situation as quicken and overwhelm.
second chance spell strike, you know the deal by now.
supreme spellstrike...welp...i have less excuses now i guess.
battle spells!
hasted assault-its haste, i fail to see how every magus wouldnt use this every fight
magus potency- eh
runic impression- better than magus potency at least, minor combat problem solver.
spell countermeasures- i like the resistance!
so, if you made it this far, to anyone who wants to try to claim that spellstrike isnt the magus's main feature, you are kidding yourself when every feat slot has at least 1, if not, multiple feats that affect spellstrike in some way.
but i also dont see why, as i gain levels, id ever want to cast spell strike as opposed to just attacking twice with a buff or 2 up.
mocked build!
slide casting, i see no reason to use the others right now with whats available to them.
1-raise tome, why? lot of feats i may want revolve around having one hand free, this lets me do something, retrain to combat assessment later, and i guess bump your arcana.
2-spirit sheathe, not super useful but cool and helps with action economy if my weapon isnt drawn, and if you cannot tell, im giving the blind faith and building out for use of spellstrike.
4-bespell strikes, mine as well see if we can be useful with this spell slots.
6-energize strikes, why? it lasts 1 minute, so its something. though im sorely tempted by two other feats at this level.
8- spell swipe, because lets apply bespell strikes and energize strikes to two targets is why.
10- portal slide probably, though quickened spell strike is tempting. especially for spell swipe.
12- bespell persistence, i dont have faith in my spells not being saved against. but overwhelming spellstrike is another option.
14-tough choices, but its not actually, hasted assault, because haste is haste.
16-id actually go all the way back and take spell countermeasure focus, but effortless concentration has important uses too.
18- second chance strike..of course.
20- supreme spellstrike, no contest.
so with this setup. you are a glass cannon that doesnt get ways to avoid reactions until level 10 at earliest, and your damage is probably not great, but its the best its going to be.
first round is probably haste up, spell strike, cast a spell, proc both bespell strikes and bespell persistence, but you want energize strikes no? cast that. haste focus+cast a spell+energize strikes=4 actions, you dojne for now.
second round, too bad you wasted last rounds bespell strikes and persistance...maybe i should drop energize strikes? doesnt seem to play well. but you can spell strike, cast a spell, move (no reactions), and attack for weapon+spell+1d6+1d6 persistent +energize strike and have a second strike available that gains the energize strike bonus.
your benefits are the ability to cast a spell while moving and not provoking reactions, and casting a spell with your strike gaining 1d6+1d6 persistant+some more static damage, though the 2 1d6's only happen on the first strike.
since most of these revolve around your use of spells, and you have 4 of them. have fun?
overall seems extremely weak.
Synthesis; shooting star lets you shoot, gives no action economy or to hit benefits. [...] only because eldritch archer does what shooting star does better
I'm not saying that Shooting Star is good, but it is not as bad as you make it out to be, Eldritch Archer can only combine a strike with an attack spell, not a save spell, so Shooting Star has broader application. It also always cost the EA 3 actions, while Shooting Star could do it in 2 for a 1 action spell.
That being said, the fact that Shooting Star is limited by the range of the spell is quite bad seeing that a lot of spells only have a range of 30 feet...
Synthesis; shooting star lets you shoot, gives no action economy or to hit benefits. [...] only because eldritch archer does what shooting star does betterI'm not saying that Shooting Star is good, but it is not as bad as you make it out to be, Eldritch Archer can only combine a strike with an attack spell, not a save spell, so Shooting Star has broader application. It also always cost the EA 3 actions, while Shooting Star could do it in 2 for a 1 action spell.
That being said, the fact that Shooting Star is limited by the range of the spell is quite bad seeing that a lot of spells only have a range of 30 feet...
considering my DC proficiency as a magus, even with 16 INT, id rather just hit something and do my damage. but i get what you are saying.
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Good post MM.
Couple of thoughts you might not have considered;
Completely agree with your assessment on Slide Casting being a no-brainer.
I don't think that sort of 'clear head-and-shoulders winner' is good design, though.
Shooting Star especially looks really really bad; you get to use a different weapon for an ability that's all drawback, no benefit.
Those very 'meh' first level feats are made even worse by the Magus not getting a feat at first level. No reason to ever take any of them.
Raise Tome is a bad joke; just cast Shield.
Cascading Ray is an interesting idea, but worse than it looks; not only are you using your worse Spell Attack numbers, but it's always going to apply MAP. You're probably looking at it sitting around -8 compared to the attack that triggers it.
On the other hand, I think Capture Spell is potentially better than you give it credit for. It gives you a stored spell as a reaction, and so allows for Spell Swipe & Dispelling Spellstrike, without ever having to use Striking Spell.
Good post MM.
Couple of thoughts you might not have considered;Completely agree with your assessment on Slide Casting being a no-brainer.
I don't think that sort of 'clear head-and-shoulders winner' is good design, though.
Shooting Star especially looks really really bad; you get to use a different weapon for an ability that's all drawback, no benefit.Those very 'meh' first level feats are made even worse by the Magus not getting a feat at first level. No reason to ever take any of them.
Raise Tome is a bad joke; just cast Shield.Cascading Ray is an interesting idea, but worse than it looks; not only are you using your worse Spell Attack numbers, but it's always going to apply MAP. You're probably looking at it sitting around -8 compared to the attack that triggers it.
On the other hand, I think Capture Spell is potentially better than you give it credit for. It gives you a stored spell as a reaction, and so allows for Spell Swipe & Dispelling Spellstrike, without ever having to use Striking Spell.
its definitely good, though its value is dependant on how often you face spell casters. so maybe campaign dependant. id hope by that level youd have an idea of what you will be facing.
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considering my DC proficiency as a magus, even with 16 INT, id rather just hit something and do my damage. but i get what you are saying.
Synthesis; shooting star lets you shoot, gives no action economy or to hit benefits. [...] only because eldritch archer does what shooting star does betterI'm not saying that Shooting Star is good, but it is not as bad as you make it out to be, Eldritch Archer can only combine a strike with an attack spell, not a save spell, so Shooting Star has broader application. It also always cost the EA 3 actions, while Shooting Star could do it in 2 for a 1 action spell.
That being said, the fact that Shooting Star is limited by the range of the spell is quite bad seeing that a lot of spells only have a range of 30 feet...
Also, anyone can just cast a save spell and then shoot with a bow. Which is effectively the same thing, just without the chance of losing the spell...