My GM was curious when in the order of things for combat does Bodyguard needs to be declared? I've been searching around and haven't found a clear answer for this question yet. There are a lot of questions around Bodyguard, but most focus on using it against proximity to ally/attacker, cover, and other conditions.
I think our confusion boils down to:
1. Do you need to declare use of Bodyguard when an attack against an adjacent ally is declared and before attack rolls are made?
2. Can you declare use of Bodyguard after rolls are made and see the values of each attack?
Because Bodyguard allows you to provide Aid Another at the cost of an AoO, it makes sense to me that you would be able to declare use of Bodyguard after the attack roll is made. Otherwise, one or multiple AoOs would potentially be rendered useless due to the chance that none of the potential attacks hitting. In my head this feels like the easiest option as it has less chance of nuanced confusion because you can view each single hit, then reactively state if you are declaring a use of Bodyguard. So if you had enough AoOs to use Bodyguard on a 3 hits from an enemy in one turn, you realistically could.
That said, Pathfinder can be weird with rules sometimes and I could see it actually being a case where you have to declare use of Bodyguard before an attack is made. But in that case, do you still loose that AoO use if none of the attacks would have hit? Similarly, if the enemy is hitting 3 times, do you have to declare Bodyguard 3 times? If you can only declare it once and can only block one of the 3 hits, either from low AoOs or other reasons, does Bodyguard apply to just the first attack or does the "Bodyguard" get to choose which attack it applies to?
Thank you for any available feedback.
1 Yes
2 No
You're adding to their AC, so if the attack has already been rolled then you're too late, they've already been hit.
There are some abilities that let you add to things after the roll has been made, but they tend to say very clearly that you can use the ability after the roll.
|
Agree with MrCharisma on all counts.
Otherwise, one or multiple AoOs would potentially be rendered useless due to the chance that none of the potential attacks hitting.
Yup, you might decide to help an ally and it turns out she didn't need the help. You might decide to cast shield of faith on your ally, and it turns out she isn't attacked at all. There's all kinds of anticipatory actions you can take in this game that turn out to be "useless", "unnecessary", or "wasted."
Without the Bodyguard feat if you want to Aid Another to improve your ally's AC, it takes a standard action and you have to do it before you know if the ally is even being attacked. With Bodyguard it only takes an AoO and you don't have to use it at all until you know your ally is being attacked.
Without the Bodyguard feat if you want to Aid Another to improve your ally's AC, it takes a standard action and you have to do it before you know if the ally is even being attacked. With Bodyguard it only takes an AoO and you don't have to use it at all until you know your ally is being attacked.
It's also in line with the Duelist's Parry ability, and the derived Swashbuckler's Opportune Parry & Reposte deed, both explicitly state to need to be activated between the declaration of the attack and the attack roll.
Huh. I think I may have used it incorrectly as my Kobold Cleric. I used a reach weapon to cover the whole threatening thing, and often was riding on the shoulder of the Dwarf to guarantee adjacency.
I would wait until he was targeted by a successful attack, THEN activate Bodyguard. Spend an AoO, and Aid Another to see if my help was enough to turn a hit into a miss.
We always played it that I was poking at the attacker or their weapon with my spear... not enough to do any damage out of turn, but just being a general nuisance to everyone within poking range of the Dwarf. I even made stupid little nuisance noises like BOOP and NEEP, along with pantomiming little poking motions.
There was plenty of examples of my help not being adequate to turn a hit into a miss, but I will ALWAYS keep the Bodyguard feat in high regard for its usefulness. We would wade into the thickness and I could keep him JUST safe enough to do God's work. My Aid Another/Bodyguard Kobold Cleric is actually my favorite DnD character, thusfar.
I honestly don't think it breaks anything using it to turn a hit into a miss, but your mileage may vary.
Yeah you've been using it wrong, but chances are it's fine.
This is one of those things that's taking a completely useless mechanic and making it useful, but it's actually not that hard to make it completely broken-ly overpowered either. Between a trait, an armour enchantment and a feat* you can get your aid another to give ~+10AC by the 10th level or so.
If you're not investing all that into Aid Another then it's probably fine to let people see the hit first, but if you have someone going all out they're basically making the party invulnerable.
Oh, I definitely had Adopted:Helpful, and something else that I can't remember right meow... I was comfortably adding a +5, or so. Sometimes it's just not enough to change the outcome.
I am not willing to argue about it, as I was probably using it wrong. But reading the feat again, there isn't any language indicating that you cannot use it the way I did. It even has wording telling you what you can't do with it... but absolutely nothing about when other than an adjacent ally being attacked.
Most such things specifically say after or before the results. Bodyguard doesn't seem to give a $#!+... so neither do I.
Are they "attacked" if it was going to miss? I mean, someone rolled an attack roll with the intent of hitting them. And the feat doesn't say "successfully attacked"... but then again, we REALLY cannot assume that the editors actually know the basic fundamentals of this language. In fact, all evidence suggests the opposite. So, given that the feat was edited by an orangutan, we can't pick it apart grammatically with any seriousness.
Most such things specifically say after or before the results. Bodyguard doesn't seem to give a $#!+... so neither do I.
Heh, I guess that's true.
My reasoning is that Aid Another says it works against the "Next" attack roll, and Bodyguard doesn't say anything to change that.
The other thing is that adding something after the roll is made is usually spelled out very specificially.
An investigator has the ability to augment skill checks and ability checks through his brilliant inspiration.
...
As a free action, he can expend one use of inspiration from his pool to add 1d6 to the result of that check, including any on which he takes 10 or 20. This choice is made after the check is rolled and before the results are revealed. An investigator can only use inspiration once per check or roll. ...
YMMV I guess, just check with your GM.
Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I can see the reading that MrCharisma mentioned being accurate. I feel like it's fine as it is when modifiers to Aid Another aren't being factored in. That said, I do see how it can end up a bit broken when additional modifiers are stacked on to boost Aid Another.
I didn't really cover my specific use case in detail, but my character isn't technically the one with Bodyguard. They have a 1 level dip into Sorcerer with the Tattooed Sorcerer archetype, which provides a familiar. That familiar was given the Protector Familiar Archetype, which is what ultimately provides access to the Bodyguard Edge. I don't currently see a way to boost the familiar's Aid Another modifier, so I don't think it will ever become broken similar to how it could for a full PC.
Here's another way to think about Bodyguard that might help remind you how it works: It uses an attack of opportunity to use. An AoO always interrupts the triggering action, and gets resolved before the triggering action is completed. So, the GM announces an enemy is attacking your ally, you declare your use of Bodyguard, you make the roll to see if you give the aid another bonus, then the enemy rolls to see if they hit the (hopefully aided) AC.
I've had two PFS characters so far that have used this feat. One was a magus with a "protector of the small" kind of vibe, and a finesse build that maximized the benefits of Combat Reflexes (and thus Bodyguard). The other is my cavalier's bodyguard archetype axebeak mount, which has the Dex and reach to make both Combat Reflexes and Bodyguard useful in almost every fight. And they've both reached levels where I only fail to aid on a natural 1, so it's a pretty darn dependable boost.
Are they "attacked" if it was going to miss?
Well, if I'm invisible, and I make an attack roll against you, and miss, have I actually attacked (and lose my invisibility) or not?