Retraining, Downtime Generally


Agents of Edgewatch


So, I dunno what the deal is. The book says, "Its already-numerous attractions multiply tenfold during 3 months of jubilee, merriment, and the cross-pollination of cultures from all over Golarion."

While it also says dates are omitted to allow for downtime and such.

But 3 months is 3 months (about the amount of downtime I give in my AoA game, per book).

I was thinking of speeding up downtime, maybe making things take 1/4th as long, but I'm not really sure. If someone wants to change a class choice (not feat or skill, but druid order, or something of the sort), it takes a month of downtime normally.

How are you all planning on dealing with downtime? Leaving the rules as-is? A very long summer? Speed up downtime activities?


I'll likely speed up things involving downtime based on the player's request.

It's very possible I will only have to make the change for one of my five players, in any case. He's a friend but lord he doesn't think about the decisions he makes for his characters and regrets them about 60% of the time and wants to retrain. You'd think he'd learn to read more than the first sentence of things sometimes.


GayBirdGM wrote:

I'll likely speed up things involving downtime based on the player's request.

It's very possible I will only have to make the change for one of my five players, in any case. He's a friend but lord he doesn't think about the decisions he makes for his characters and regrets them about 60% of the time and wants to retrain. You'd think he'd learn to read more than the first sentence of things sometimes.

My friend thinks about things too much, constantly wants to change. I remember in MMOs, he was always broke from respec costs.

PF2 is somewhat odd, in that it almost requires retraining for some abilities. Armor and Weapon Prof feats which lose value after level x, or Canny acumen, where you train in, then out, then in again.

Other abilities are better at low level, and then something else becomes better. For example, spell blending is almost useless at first level, and not great until you get level 3+ spells.


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Yeah, that sounds about right.

Luckily 2 of my players do extensive research on their final build to make sure they need to do little to no retraining, another 2 just coast along and chill. It's this last one that's always picking something, realizing it isn't what he thought, and changing his mind 2 levels later. And I try my best to be accommodating.

Given that this campaign is supposed to take place during a summer, I think 1/4 the time for it being stuck to 1/4 the year makes sense.


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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Since we're still learning PF2, when I ran Age of Ashes, I pretty much allowed free retraining whenever the PCs leveled up. It didn't create any problems, and it prevented punishing people - or sticking us with unintended house rules - as we learn how PF2 functions.

So for example, when we noticed the meaning of the Incapacitation trait for the first time, the spellcasters already had access to 4th level spells, I think - and the bard in particular had multiple spells that were affected. So we let him retrain a some spells on the spot, so he'd have other options, and started enforcing Incapacitation for all the spellcasters. (If we weren't doing free retraining, I'd have felt almost obligated to ignore Incapacitation, but now that we're used to it, I'm really glad we didn't have to go that way.)

Knowing we can fix things if a choice doesn't work out has made the group much more willing to try things out.

Vigilant Seal

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I'm just stretching out the festival to be the better part of a year. It's the first one that has occurred in 200 years, so I think it wouldn't be too much of a stretch.

If we can already accept a season-long festival, extending it to >6 months isn't too bad.


Kazimir_980 wrote:

I'm just stretching out the festival to be the better part of a year. It's the first one that has occurred in 200 years, so I think it wouldn't be too much of a stretch.

If we can already accept a season-long festival, extending it to >6 months isn't too bad.

Certainly not a bad idea! I may just do that regardless, my group tends to enjoy having some downtime to explore cities and do idle things around just for fun, not necessarily for retraining.

Vigilant Seal

Yup! The book even encourages you to play around with the timeline--the entire section on the attractions of the Radiant Festival is there in case your players want to veer off of the course laid out in the path.

Liberty's Edge

The whole idea of downtime is sort of weird in the context of this AP because the adventure seems to happen while the PCs are doing their “day job.” If they're taking downtime are they also taking a leave of absence from the Edgewatch? If not, are they still spending “8 hours” a day on Watch duty PLUS doing downtime activities? It’s just sort of awkward.

Vigilant Seal

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Luke Styer wrote:
The whole idea of downtime is sort of weird in the context of this AP because the adventure seems to happen while the PCs are doing their “day job.” If they're taking downtime are they also taking a leave of absence from the Edgewatch? If not, are they still spending “8 hours” a day on Watch duty PLUS doing downtime activities? It’s just sort of awkward.

It could just be "downtime" consisting of uneventful days patrolling.

Perhaps not every single day has skeletons popping up out of the ground and goblins tossing jars of oil at each other.


Luke Styer wrote:
The whole idea of downtime is sort of weird in the context of this AP because the adventure seems to happen while the PCs are doing their “day job.” If they're taking downtime are they also taking a leave of absence from the Edgewatch? If not, are they still spending “8 hours” a day on Watch duty PLUS doing downtime activities? It’s just sort of awkward.

This isn't a problem unless you decide it is. Either assume it is on-the-job training, waive the time requirement altogether, or simply say "a week just passed, your retraining is finished".

The problem only exists if you insist retraining requires downtime of the specific sort that makes you miss adventure developments.

My point: Since you made it a problem that needs solving, you need to provide the solution yourself... :-)

Liberty's Edge

Zapp wrote:
This isn't a problem unless you decide it is. Either assume it is on-the-job training, waive the time requirement altogether, or simply say "a week just passed, your retraining is finished".

Funny you mentioned retraining, because I generally don’t enforce retraining rules anyway, and in particular, I have a Ranger player who wanted her character to have an animal companion from level 1, so she built accordingly. Today we hit level 2 halfway through the session, and I let her replace her level 1 Ranger feat and take Beast Master Dedication at 2. This happened immediately between the menagerie and the pagoda, so no downtime at all.

Quote:
The problem only exists if you insist retraining requires downtime of the specific sort that makes you miss adventure developments.

I wasn’t aware there was, by RAW any other kind of downtime. Like I said, I don’t enforce retraining rules anyway, but I thought that was a house rule, not some other kind of downtime covered in RAW.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I wanted to hop on this question as i was curious if the festivities have a general timeline within the ap? Like if book 6 is supposed to represent the end of the festival or something like that?


Luke Styer wrote:
Quote:
The problem only exists if you insist retraining requires downtime of the specific sort that makes you miss adventure developments.
I wasn’t aware there was, by RAW any other kind of downtime. Like I said, I don’t enforce retraining rules anyway, but I thought that was a house rule, not some other kind of downtime covered in RAW.

Could you clarify your question?

Are you asking if I'm saying the rules state any downtime must mean a character misses out on adventure?

Because if you are, then "no". I'm not saying it, because I don't believe it. Under no circumstance do I believe downtime is intended to force a character to sit out any adventuring. Another way of saying that is that I don't believe the party should be forced to go on with the scenario a man short.

At most the cost of downtime is missing out on week's worth of Earn Income. (While you retrain, the other characters get to earn a few bucks if they want to)

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