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I ran my players through a mech combat last week. They were level 8 and I wanted a single pilot mech for each of them. Using the build rules (see my other thread for my thoughts on the process) I could not make 5 tier 8 mechs for my players (there are 5 of them) with the points allowance, so I just gave them 160 MP to make a tier 8 mech for each of them. My players were a technomancer, operative, mystic and an envoy. I put them up against the CR 12 AHAV as that is within the increased capabilities of mechs according to the rules.
Mech builds:
Size: Huge
HP: 302; Shield Points (SP): 19; Power Points (PP): 2/8/3 (initial/max/rate); Hardness: 4
EAC: 26; KAC: 29; Fort: +10; Ref: +10
Base Speed: 70’; Strength: +6; Operators: 1
Lower Limbs: Quadruped; Upper Limbs: Assault Arms; Power Core: Dynamo mk3
Weapon Core (Aux): acid, fire
Plow Plating (Aux): ignore difficult terrain
Attack Bonus: +9 + BAB/Piloting ranks
Frost Rifle (lvl 8, upper)
Gatling Gun (lvl 8, upper)
Hammerknee (lvl 8, lower)
Plasma Rifle (lvl 7, frame)
Size: Huge (flight, recon)
HP: 262; Shield Points (SP): 19; Power Points (PP): 6/13/1 (initial/max/rate); Hardness: 4
EAC: 26; KAC: 26; Fort: +8; Ref: +10
Base Speed: 40’, fly 130’ (perfect, max 5’ high); Strength: +4; Operators: 1
Lower Limbs: Hoverpad; Upper Limbs: Precision Arms; Power Core: Eternal mk2
Cloaker (Aux): can use stealth
Autotarget (Aux):
Recon Arracy (Aux): +2 perception, +5 computers to scan
Fleet: x2, +20’ speeds
Attack Bonus: +10 + BAB/Piloting ranks
Sonic Shotgun (lvl 8, upper)
Frost Rifle (lvl 8, upper)
Size: Huge (flight)
HP: 303; Shield Points (SP): 19; Power Points (PP): 1/7/3 (initial/max/rate); Hardness: 4
EAC: 28; KAC: 30; Fort: +9; Ref: +9
Base Speed: 30’, fly 60’ (average); Strength: +4; Operators: 1
Lower Limbs: Agile Biped; Upper Limbs: Assault Arms; Power Core: Dynamo mk2
Plasma-Shock Circuits (Aux):
Systems Jammer (Aux):
Unbreakable Armour: +1 KAC, Fort
Reinforced Frame: Base HP +5, HP advanced +1
Attack Bonus: +9 + BAB/Piloting ranks
Plasma Sword (lvl 8, upper)
Spiked Shield (lvl 8, upper)
Missile Battery (lvl 8, frame)
Size: Huge (phase)
HP: 336; Shield Points (SP): 35; Power Points (PP): 7/15/2 (initial/max/rate); Hardness: 4
EAC: 28; KAC: 28; Fort: +8; Ref: +10
Base Speed: 80’; Strength: +5; Operators: 1
Lower Limbs: Fast Biped; Upper Limbs: Tough Arms; Power Core: Eternal mk3
Teleporter (Aux):
Thrusters (Aux):
EMP Cannon (Aux): target EAC, Fort DC: 19
Enhanced Shields: x2, +16 SP
Reinforced Frame: Base HP +5, HP advanced +1
Attack Bonus: +9 + BAB/Piloting ranks
Laser Rifle (lvl 8, frame)
Spear (lvl 8, upper)
Due to the story I was running the initial plan was for all 4 mechs to me remotely piloted, but the technomancer wanted to be in the field as he could then use the remote operation spell to control another mech if needed. The spell seemed like it could and should do so, so I allowed them to do that (not that they ended up doing it during the fight).
I started the fight 1000' away from the AHAV as it was breaking out of the ground where it had laid dormant and they were approaching it. This is where we come to the first point.
1. Weapon capacity seems pointless
Since most of the guns have a capacity of 10 with 2 reloads, a lot of my players decided to just take pot shots from that extreme distance. They figured that since they had so much ammo it was worth it to fire with such a poor chance of hitting. Even with the odd full attack, none of the mechs ran out of their first magazine. Saying that, that has been my experience with normal combat, but considering this appears to be for the odd usage like ship combat, it seems odd. Maybe just allow infinite attacks and only the special attacks have a limited fire like missiles/torpedoes in ship combat.
So, everyone continued moving up. The operative was in the sharpwing, so was double moving constantly to get into melee range. The rest were just moving and then shooting at the AHAV. It was firing at them and got some good hits in, taking out shields. However once it got through the shields, it didn't seem capable of doing a lot of damage after the 4 hardness.
2. PCs didn't appear to be close to being destroyed
A couple of PCs used the shield regen action to get more shields back, but as the GM, I felt that I wasn't really doing enough to truly threaten the mechs. Granted I had 5 tier 8 mechs vs a CR 12 creature and maybe this is just needing to fiddle creature I put against them. Near the end I did have my AHAV grapple the sharpwing mech just to change things up from just shooting and the players got worried, but realistically even succeeding the second time and having them swallowed and having some damage didn't really do much.
So, the players moved around, took shots and some used their special abilities. Dual strike was used several times to get lots of attacks off and the EMP cannon on the charger was used a couple of times. Since their enemy was a creature and not a mech, but was a construct I had to quickly make up some rules for its impact considering there was nothing in the playtest rules (gave it a -2 attack for the weapon EMP effect).
3. Rules for mech effects against creatures
There are several mech specific rulings in weapons/abilities that seem like they should have an impact against construct creatures (and maybe others) but technically would not impact them because they are not mechs. I suggest these are either added with each ability, or a rough guide elsewhere as to what effects they may have. Home games it can be ruled by the GM but if this is used in SFS then specific rulings will need to be made anyway.
The technomancer wanted to use one of his teleport abilities to get inside the AHAV and do stuff to it from within. I allowed it since he is a spathinae and he started to mess with it using his spells and engineering/computers checks to give it penalties similar to the critical damage table for mechs. Afterwards we discussed how some spells might interact with mechs.
4. Spells and mechs
Mechs are vehicles and so spells that target vehicles can do so to mechs (this has already been covered elsewhere with the example of the spell that completely disables a mech for a minute). Some things brought up were if you were able to use supercharge weapon to make your gun do more damage, especially useful in a multi-person mech. Since some if not most guns appear to be built into the mech, that seemed reasonable, but something to consider. Transfer charge was also brought up, to switch charges from one energy weapon to another energy weapon, getting extra reloads for a specific gun. If ammo was removed as above, then that wouldn't matter. But could it also be used for power points or shield points? Presumably they are holding a charge, so could you move them around between mechs? And then teleport. We used it to get inside the AHAV, but could you do so to get inside an enemy mech? Is there sufficient room? Something like Pacific Rim has masses of room to teleport in, while gundam style there would be much less. I guess getting into GM decisions there, but again something to consider.
So, the PCs destroy the AHAV and win the fight. Afterwards, the players said their characters had little impact on the fight.
5. Character abilities have no impact on mech combat
A bit hyperbole there since BAB/pilot skill has an impact, but putting it this way: I had a new player join that session and came to build his character while we had the fight. I had him join anyway since he could put 8 ranks in piloting and now had everything on his character sheet he needed to play as a mech. This has been mentioned elsewhere here before but nothing of their character mechanics wise had an impact. You could say that for ship combat, but there are a few abilities that interact directly and a few that do so indirectly. I presume there will be similar class abilities or modifications of existing abilities in the final run, but right now it is basically "Throw away your character sheet, here is a new one to use."
Which leads onto my final point:
6. Mech combat doesn't feel special
Yes we have cool abilities and interesting creation stuff, but when it comes down to the combat it just feels like normal combat, except not playing as your character. There doesn't seem that much difference between this and giving all your players power armour and the proficiency to use it, except players can use their own abilities in power armour. Maybe having facing would make it feel different enough, with features that fitted into that would make it feel a separate type of combat like in ship combat, although maybe on a square grid to make it different from that.
So it seemed to be enjoyed and worth having, and I will probably use it again in my own game, but it definitely seems to be lacking something to make it special.
Just to point out somethings:
- Your players should be able to create only 4 tier 6 mech not tier 8 because of the minimum MP per tier (giving them less AC and less powerfull weapons). But i belive thats ok.
- Your mech health seams way too high, a skirmish frame has 10 HP and 8 HP adv, meaning 10+8*8 = 74 without limbs that will add you around 32 points if you use threads and though arms, if you upgrade Hp +8, so you could have 114HP at maximum for tier 8 mech skirmisher.
I do agree with you with that part of throw away your character and have this new sheet.
The way i see, mechs can be used in their own campaign where who you are, your class and other choices are only for the roleplay.
Mechs are expensive and player won't have their mech to go out exploring, thei belong to a organization, not every player is willing to be that.
If the campaign is not mech focused you won't even be able to use them very often.
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Per the HP, the way I read it was that for each level you get increasing HP. ie at level 1 you get 1*8 HP. Then at level 2 you get an additional 2*8 HP, with level 3 giving you 3*8 HP.
This is per: 'At tier 1 and every tier thereafter, a mech gains additional Hit Points equal to its HP Advancement multiplied by its tier.'
Its weird to do that and if it is supposed to be how you say then it needs to be clearer.
As for the mech tier, yes they should be tier 6 mechs, but I made them higher so they could fight something they wouldn't otherwise be able to fight at their level.
Per the HP, the way I read it was that for each level you get increasing HP. ie at level 1 you get 1*8 HP. Then at level 2 you get an additional 2*8 HP, with level 3 giving you 3*8 HP.
This is per: 'At tier 1 and every tier thereafter, a mech gains additional Hit Points equal to its HP Advancement multiplied by its tier.'
Its weird to do that and if it is supposed to be how you say then it needs to be clearer.
As for the mech tier, yes they should be tier 6 mechs, but I made them higher so they could fight something they wouldn't otherwise be able to fight at their level.
Maybe i got this wrong. I reading again it makes sense to calculate the way you did but, it is not really practical for players and GM to check the sheet because it will be exponential (and completely different from player building).
Pretty sure it's not supposed to be exponential.
So at level three you have 3*8 and that's it, not 1*8+2*8+3*8.
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Each mech gains Hit Points equal to their base HP value, granted by their frame. At tier 1 and every tier thereafter, a mech gains additional hit points equal to its HP Advancement multiplied by their tier.
So it should be hit point advancement x tier + base frame hit points.