Hi everybody.
We have a player in my group that is a nymph. I have seen a lot of discussion online about certain non-hag monsters leading and having covens, and the nymph class of monster seems to be one of those creatures. My understanding was it was even canonized in Skulls and Shackles?
In any case, it seems this nymph will be able to complete and lead a coven. The problem then arises...
What spell-like abilities would a nymph coven have access to with coven casting? What rules already exist for fey covens (if any)?
(I realized this was more of a rules questions post, so it's cross-posted from Advice.)
|
(I realized this was more of a rules questions post, so it's cross-posted from Advice.)
And double posted in the rule section. Let's use this thread and not the other.
Nymph as members of a coven seem strange, I will check Skulls and Shackles to see what it says. You are sure it isn't about witch nymphs?
Edit:
from what I see there is nothing official. It a suggestion by Mikaze that probably had a lot of success.
I'm really unsure how it's double posted. Honestly I'd like to have deleted the previous post but I can't see any option for it (perhaps I ran out of time to?).
I'd heard there was a naiad in Skulls and Shackles that had a coven?
|
|
I searched the world "coven" in the S&S adventures (only the adventure part) and the only mention of a coven I did find was:
"Irons’ successor as Hurricane King, his former first mate Glick Hyde, allied himself with a coven of sea witches and slew a great bronze dragon that sought to guard the sea lanes."
Then I did found an old thread that interests me in the books section and was lost for 8 hours reading links, Wikipedia pages, and ordering books on Amazon.
Mikaze should have prepared a trap with Charm person and Suggestion and I failed the Will saves.
;-)
About the double thread, the forum has some kind of bug, sometimes you don't see your post and repost it, then both appear.
Yeah that double post thing is annoying... I have to exit the thread and reload the forum index page and go back into the thread just to see my reply sometimes.
As for your question, I have no idea how a Nymph is qualified to join a Coven, much less lead one, but aside from that "all covens can cast the following spells, regardless of the hags that comprise them: animate dead, baleful polymorph, bestow curse, clairaudience/clairvoyance, commune, dream, forcecage, mind blank, reincarnate, speak with dead, veil, vision".
I would imagine that a Nymph would add some nature nonsense and some charm spells. Maybe look at the spells from the feat Fey Spell Lore:
0—dancing lights,
1st—lesser confusion,
2nd—charm person,
3rd—invisibility,
4th—bestow curse,
5th—charm monster,
6th—major curse,
7th—cloak of dreams,
8th—insanity,
9th—irresistible dance.
Those are pretty thematic for fey, but they don't fit the sort of out-of-combat coven casting stereotype. I know not all coven spells are meant for outside of battle but all of those are combat SLAs.
The weird thing is I'm sure I saw something about nymph covens, but it was years ago. I've been racking my brain trying to figure out where I saw it, but I remember thinking "Wow Paizo that's super cool" when I read it.
I'm hoping a cassisian will see this thread and use its Perfect Memory to tell me where I saw it!
I searched the world "coven" in the S&S adventures (only the adventure part) and the only mention of a coven I did find was:
"Irons’ successor as Hurricane King, his former first mate Glick Hyde, allied himself with a coven of sea witches and slew a great bronze dragon that sought to guard the sea lanes."Then I did found an old thread that interests me in the books section and was lost for 8 hours reading links, Wikipedia pages, and ordering books on Amazon.
Mikaze should have prepared a trap with Charm person and Suggestion and I failed the Will saves.
;-)
I can totally relate. I get dragged into that chain of reading all the time with game systems. I feel like it's similar to how normal people end up chained into Wikipedia, or Gordan Ramsey Youtube videos.
|
|
Those are pretty thematic for fey, but they don't fit the sort of out-of-combat coven casting stereotype. I know not all coven spells are meant for outside of battle but all of those are combat SLAs.
The weird thing is I'm sure I saw something about nymph covens, but it was years ago. I've been racking my brain trying to figure out where I saw it, but I remember thinking "Wow Paizo that's super cool" when I read it.
I'm hoping a cassisian will see this thread and use its Perfect Memory to tell me where I saw it!
As I said, the only thing I did find are some old suggestions by Mikaze:
Alternately, you could have other monstrous coven-completers that fit the general theme of your PC witches. They could possibly also bring alternate coven spells to the table.
Nymphs, lillendi, medusas, certain genies...
edit-Skull and Shackles? Nereid! Or a Cecaelia witch...
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o4kd?Witch-Coven-hex-questions#4
There are some threads floating around suggesting witch-flavor-friendly coven-completers that aren't hags, IIRC. Stuff like medusas, nymphs, genies and such more in tune with the alignments of other witches. Could be some stuff useful to your group if you want to expand the range of flavor.
https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pfw6?Witches-Coven-Hex#18
but are all suggestion on how you can use the Coven hex, that doesn't allow a Nymph without the hex to work as a hag.
The PF2 Naiad is said to form coven-like groups...
And the feat Fey Spell Lore is just a place to start. It's actually meant for Druids. Honestly, though, I think the general list of spells that all Covens can cast pretty well covers all the out of combat stuff Covens do. You might add some sort of blight or cursed terrain to the list, but even that could be considered as another combat spell (however thematic it may be).
Thoughts on these adjustments for a nymph coven, guys?
animate dead -> awaken?
baleful polymorph
blight -> plant growth?
bestow curse
clairaudience/clairvoyance
charm monster
commune
control weather
dream
forcecage
mind blank
mirage arcana
reincarnate
speak with dead
veil
vision
Makes me wonder what other fey would add. Maybe hamadryad can join and add regenerate?
I wouldn't call it a Coven, although the mechanics of it will be the same. I would call it something unique to a group of Fey. Call it folk-casting or something.
I would have the majority of the group be relatively weak Fey, that actually have a lot to gain from forming a bond with others. Each may only bring something stupid to the list, but once the whole cast is present... they have a relatively extensive list to choose from for their choir-casting.
Grigs and PUGWAMPI! It will be glorious...